Coytee Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 Our little Princess, Chloe (my avatar) is probably 13/14 years old. So, I get that she's becoming a senior citizen. That said, I am on the hunt for some info since our Vet won't be open until tomorrow to ask. We have a carpenter bee problem (they love log houses) and have sprayed some of their holes to kill them. It seems some of them have worked their way out of their holes, onto the ground where it also seems, little Miss Precious, loves to have crunchy snacks. We're just now putting (the potential of) 2+2 together that she's been eating the dead bugs and digesting some of what killed them. She's stumbling around like a drunken sailor almost literally tripping over her front feet. Last year, we had her to the vet who said she's suffering from Addison's disease and gave her some pills that she's taken ever since. She slowly got better..... not to 100% but not bad for her age. Now, she's sliding down that path again Last year, it turns out, she was also eating the bugs which..... went away after 8 weeks or so (then she slowly got them out of her system??) So we're wondering if it's the poison used to kill the bugs that she might be ingesting that might be causing this. If so.... anyone have any idea of something we can give her to help take it out of her system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pallpoul Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 Sorry to her about ur baby,.. check her for bugs, I had a similar problem with one of my schiTzu's few years ago, was getting weak and couln't walk straight. it was a bug on his skin that 3 vets did not find or think about. Being a Doctor myself, I researched the symptoms and, and all pointed to some paralytic toxin, that usually is secreted by a small tiny bug that latches to the skin. I checked him out and found it, removed it, he got better in 1-2 days and walked normally after . hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted June 17, 2018 Author Share Posted June 17, 2018 Thank you for the ideas... was this a tick? (we live in the woods and the ticks are terrible) My wife & I both (independent of each other) came to feel it's perhaps more neurolgical than anything... When I walk her outside, she'll walk around like her brain has short circuited (walk in circles, stumble, walk into a tree) I wondered if she had a stoke somewhere or perhaps a lesion on her brain.... Addison's didn't fit (my understanding of it) Tomorrow can't get here soon enough. She's not bad enough for emergency care... we're trying to nip it in the bud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimbo Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 Personally, I wouldn't wait for your vet to open, I would find an emergency clinic and take her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted June 17, 2018 Author Share Posted June 17, 2018 We had her to the vet for this. This is really, somewhat of a continuation of what she's had. The only difference being the ebb/flow of it. A year ago, it was on a Friday night and I was utterly convinced she was going to die that night. I can't describe how pitiful she was. Got her to the vet immediately in the morning and he came up with the Addison's diagnosis and gave her a variety of pills to take. We worked with her and over time, she got better. Working with her means putting her leash on, carrying her out to the flat field (verses side yard with a slope that would confuse/trip her) set her down to do her business, pick her up and bring her back....several times per day in sun, rain, night... Using that as a "10" on a scale of 1-10, she is today at a "3-4" so I'm not panicked enough to pay the emergency vets rate on the weekend since we've already been here before. It's just that now time has passed and we're seeing a possible pattern and that pattern would be the arrival of the carpenter bees.... spray them and (as it turns out) she's munching on some of them since we generally let them loose outdoors unsupervised. (lest that sound horrific to someone, we're on 250 acres at end of dead end road so we don't have "others" to worry about) My old work partners wife has Addisons and I've seen how it affects her.... I don't see any of those traits in Chloe (not that I know enough to know if it's 100% similar) so I've always been a bit doubtful about that diagnosis however, our Vet has saved more than one of our animals so I've got to respect his thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speed Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 Maybe get her to drink as much as possible, like Gatorade or something she will want to drink a lot of. I'd definitely read the warnings on the poison you used. Good luck with the Wuffer ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pallpoul Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 1 hour ago, Coytee said: Thank you for the ideas... was this a tick? (we live in the woods and the ticks are terrible) My wife & I both (independent of each other) came to feel it's perhaps more neurolgical than anything... When I walk her outside, she'll walk around like her brain has short circuited (walk in circles, stumble, walk into a tree) I wondered if she had a stoke somewhere or perhaps a lesion on her brain.... Addison's didn't fit (my understanding of it) Tomorrow can't get here soon enough. She's not bad enough for emergency care... we're trying to nip it in the bud. it was a tick. giver her a thorough check up it is small and kind of blackish dark color. I don't remember the name I did find it however through my research. it comes out and is common in the spring time in wooded areas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted June 17, 2018 Author Share Posted June 17, 2018 1 hour ago, pallpoul said: it was a tick. giver her a thorough check up it is small and kind of blackish dark color. I don't remember the name I did find it however through my research. it comes out and is common in the spring time in wooded areas. Gotcha. The ticks we get (that we find) are generally small however, I've seen a new definition of small. Perhaps they were babies or perhaps I finally saw a (what I believe to be) a deer tick.... You can take a pencil....sharpen it as sharp as possible and put as small as possible dot on a piece of paper and you would approximate the size of those small ones. They brought a whole new meaning to the world of small to me. (I thought the earlier, more typical ticks were the "small" ones since we've found some larger, engorged ticks from time to time) Reason I know of these "dot" sized ticks is I had a couple on me and I swear.... it still itches today, 3-weeks later. All of our dogs have a decent coat of fur so it would be near impossible to visually find those. Chloe specifically, being an American Eskimo, has the undercoat of fur. I appreciate all the thoughts from everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 On 6/17/2018 at 9:57 AM, Coytee said: When I walk her outside, she'll walk around like her brain has short circuited (walk in circles, stumble, walk into a tree) I wondered if she had a stoke somewhere or perhaps a lesion on her brain.... Addison's didn't fit (my understanding of it) I'll throw something in there to consider... I've heard about people becoming horribly disoriented and suffering bad vertigo from a disturbance of some kind of ear crystals, which is easily treated. See here. Dogs have enough similarity to humans where maybe they can suffer this condition, too. Edit: Yep. Dogs get it, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 I agree with your analysis of the dog eating the poisoned Carpenter bees. Those bees are a problem in my neck of the woods as well and are incredibly destructive to wood surfaces. Google for an alternative to the sprays (which I use as well) to kill the bees. In the meantime, look on the can for an 800 number and call the company to ask for help. I'm very sure this is not the first time this has happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twk123 Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 I also think it is most likely the bees but it may also be an ear infection. About a year ago one of our cats started falling over and walking around looking drunk. After watching her, we noticed whenever she shook her head it made her fall over. I went to the vet and they did a thorough neurological exam and we found out it was an ear infection that threw her equilibrium off. I few rounds of meds and she was as good as new. The walking in circles may be a sign of ear infection as well because one ear hurts so they lower their head and the equilibrium makes them pull to that side. Also check for burrs, there is a kind of plant called the foxtail that has those arrow looking burrs and they can get in your dogs ear and work their way in. We were always taking my Dog to the vet to get those out. I hate these nasty things: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyrc Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 I hope your dog made it through the crisis. She looks sweet. Do they have alternative bug spraying places in Tennessee that use sprays that don't affect vertebrates? Here in the Northwest, there are several companies that at least advertise that their sprays don't hurt dogs, cats, people, etc. Are the carpenter bees toxic in and of themselves? I didn't realize that dogs got Addison's disease. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davis Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 I use permethrin to kill carpernter bees. it does an excellent job and takes very little. Permethrin is also used for spraying livestock and for topical use on dogs for flees and ticks. There were no side effects listed for ingestion only for topical use. I hope she is all right and you find the cause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 37 minutes ago, Davis said: I use permethrin to kill carpernter bees. it does an excellent job and takes very little. Permethrin is also used for spraying livestock and for topical use on dogs for flees and ticks. There were no side effects listed for ingestion only for topical use. I hope she is all right and you find the cause. Permethrin works on insects by its nature of being "sticky"...and when an insect, tick, chigger, whatever...gets this "sticky" feeling on its feet, it has NO OTHER WAY to remove it than to preen its feet using its mouth parts...IOW, it ingests it, which is how it kills the critter. Just think of how annoying it is when you step on some gum on the sidewalk on a hot day and, until you get that gum off of your shoes it is just bothersome when walking....same kind of thing with insects getting it on their feet. It does NOT kill critters through contact in and of itself, it is the ingestion of it that kills them. That is why, Soldiers who used permanone (very high concentrate of permethrin in that stuff!!) by spraying it on the outside of clothing and letting it thoroughly dry before wearing those clothes....would often un-blouse their boots, and a pile of dead critters (mostly ticks!!) would fall out of their pant-legs...the initial contact with permethrin is not what killed them, it was the "ingestion by preening" that did it...so....even though they got INSIDE the clothing BEFORE they died, they died after cleaning their feet and in most cases before they could bite the Soldiers. Many folks think that if a bug just touches it they die, but that is not really the case. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muel Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 I had a frustrating problem with wood bees boring holes in my deck and fence (all either treated lumber or cedar) but I was able to get rid of them for quite a while now. I used an additive (mostly contains citronella oil as I recall) in my stain. https://www.amazon.com/Outlast-NBS30-Release-Repellent-Additive/dp/B006X259WI I mostly use a large stain brush to apply but the sprayer will work too. The bees quickly disappeared and I did not see any return for at least 3 years. 4 years later I started seeing some come back but now it has been 7 years and I still haven't seen as many but it is probably time to stain again anyway. The added benefit is that mosquitoes also disappeared that first year or so! Just plug the holes with exterior wood fill (like the epoxy stuff). I kind of enjoyed doing this at dusk with the little suckers being entombed in the wood. None were able to dig out but I suppose that could be a risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted June 20, 2018 Moderators Share Posted June 20, 2018 My guess would be tic, there has been much of this in the new lately, to the point of people and animals being paralyzed, or something he ate ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJkizak Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 4 hours ago, muel said: I had a frustrating problem with wood bees boring holes in my deck and fence (all either treated lumber or cedar) but I was able to get rid of them for quite a while now. I used an additive (mostly contains citronella oil as I recall) in my stain. https://www.amazon.com/Outlast-NBS30-Release-Repellent-Additive/dp/B006X259WI I mostly use a large stain brush to apply but the sprayer will work too. The bees quickly disappeared and I did not see any return for at least 3 years. 4 years later I started seeing some come back but now it has been 7 years and I still haven't seen as many but it is probably time to stain again anyway. The added benefit is that mosquitoes also disappeared that first year or so! Just plug the holes with exterior wood fill (like the epoxy stuff). I kind of enjoyed doing this at dusk with the little suckers being entombed in the wood. None were able to dig out but I suppose that could be a risk. It's a good thing those bees can't talk or you could hear them screaming, "help me, help me" just like in that fly movie where the guy teleports himself partly into a fly. JJK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davis Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 16 hours ago, HDBRbuilder said: Permethrin works on insects by its nature of being "sticky"...and when an insect, tick, chigger, whatever...gets this "sticky" feeling on its feet, it has NO OTHER WAY to remove it than to preen its feet using its mouth parts...IOW, it ingests it, which is how it kills the critter. Just think of how annoying it is when you step on some gum on the sidewalk on a hot day and, until you get that gum off of your shoes it is just bothersome when walking....same kind of thing with insects getting it on their feet. It does NOT kill critters through contact in and of itself, it is the ingestion of it that kills them. That is why, Soldiers who used permanone (very high concentrate of permethrin in that stuff!!) by spraying it on the outside of clothing and letting it thoroughly dry before wearing those clothes....would often un-blouse their boots, and a pile of dead critters (mostly ticks!!) would fall out of their pant-legs...the initial contact with permethrin is not what killed them, it was the "ingestion by preening" that did it...so....even though they got INSIDE the clothing BEFORE they died, they died after cleaning their feet and in most cases before they could bite the Soldiers. Many folks think that if a bug just touches it they die, but that is not really the case. Pyrethroids are one of the oldest classes of organic insecticides known. They work by quickly paralyzing the nervous systems of insects, producing a quick "knockdown" effect on insect pest populations Permethrin acts as a stomach poison when it is ingested by insects or as a contact poison through direct contact with target pests Pyrethroids act by interfering with the transmission of nerve impulses along the neurons http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/extoxnet/metiram-propoxur/permethrin-ext.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 On 6/20/2018 at 2:34 AM, garyrc said: Are the carpenter bees toxic in and of themselves? I don't think so, they don't even sting or bite. They are about as big as a silver dollar. The only way I get rid of them is by knocking them out of the air with my racquetball racquet. Usually a backhand. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 Your loud distorted music could be taking a toll and may have injured her ears and affected her equilibrium. Clean up the sound. P.S. Glad you got it figured out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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