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Dave A

Super MWM

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I was not too serious about jumping down this rabbit hole any time soon it was more along the lines of it does not take much to amuse me.

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2 minutes ago, Dave A said:

I was not too serious about jumping down this rabbit hole any time soon it was more along the lines of it does not take much to amuse me.

Funny stuff. Well, all of the numbers will change in Hornresp, but I'll do the taller horn first, then try some 18's to see. Although I think all it would do is increase the output power by 2 db with a proportionally stronger motor. I do think this one is good enough on it's own and for home,  a double stack is certainly not needed. I know at least 3 guys here that have double stack MWM singles, but they won't go as low as this one, which is why they need subwoofers because the MWM is too SHORT (LaScala being the worst in this regard).

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Yes the size issue. Knock a hole in the wall, stick this rascal through and use the protrusion on the other side for a bench seat. See how easy that was?

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1 minute ago, Dave A said:

Yes the size issue. Knock a hole in the wall, stick this rascal through and use the protrusion on the other side for a bench seat. See how easy that was?

I like the way you think!!

 

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Here’s some pics of drivers that a guy I know that uses other drivers in this setup
I don’t k ow if they are still around , he said that they handle more power and went to a lower hz
Let me find a better pic

22da528399eb1d6573e4c7250d074efa.jpge431436daf35558c5f28b9f2aa06d5ad.jpg

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Stay away from the Gauss. From what I've read, less efficient and higher distortion. I would stick with k-33/43 or similar.

 

Maybe Claudes fav the 15C.

 

Bruce

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Carl's picture is a monument to something bad. The dude stripped all those Klipsch cabinets of Klipsch drivers and put in second rate stuff and thought he did something good. At one time I was interested in all of it until I found that out. He even stripped the K-4M and K-55-v drivers out of the midrange and threw that "junk" away !!! I never thought I would see someone spend that kind of money just to take and try and turn it into a JBL or Gauss speaker system.

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15 hours ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

It should actually be larger, but it's better to lengthen the horn and have a slightly smaller back chamber in order to get to that 31 Hz. "big string B" on a 5 string bass. This is why you see a little bit of a curve sag at 45 Hz. and a slight peak before drop off.

Doesn't the back chamber have to be a compromise of two things?...meaning...1. fulfilling requirements for the cone energy pushing forward through the compression slot....and... 2. Using that SEALED back chamber air volume to both limit forward excursion of the cone, and rearward excursion of the cone...by providing back chamber air volume needed to do so in order to keep the cone from slamming the voice coil through over-excursion in either direction???  

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4 hours ago, Marvel said:

Stay away from the Gauss. From what I've read, less efficient and higher distortion. I would stick with k-33/43 or similar.

 

Maybe Claudes fav the 15C.

 

Bruce

I had Gauss drivers in my MWM's 11 years ago. Two had Gauss and two had K-43's. The Gauss drivers were the worst performers in terms of low bass. All they did was handle gobs of power, which again was the BIGGEST issue with MWM stacks. The idiot sound guys used way too much power in them and burned up K33, so Klipsch had Eminence come up with a K-43 for commercial LaScalas and MWM's. They had better response at 500 Hz. but thinned out the bass at the bottom end, which is related to their BL product among other things. It was a poor choice on the part of ignorant, 1 dimensional sound guys.

 

Actually, my favorite driver for the Super MWM bins is the Crites 1526 woofer followed, the K-33, unless you want to cross higher than 400 Hz., then I prefer the 15C. They are all in the same ballpark, but they have their operational nuances.

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51 minutes ago, HDBRbuilder said:

Doesn't the back chamber have to be a compromise of two things?...meaning...1. fulfilling requirements for the cone energy pushing forward through the compression slot....and... 2. Using that SEALED back chamber air volume to both limit forward excursion of the cone, and rearward excursion of the cone...by providing back chamber air volume needed to do so in order to keep the cone from slamming the voice coil through over-excursion in either direction???  

You pretty much nailed it, yes. However, on the practical build side, it's a question of BALANCE between the loading of the throat with the length of the horn determining the acoustic cutoff and the volume of air behind it. In this case, it actually needs almost double the volume of what we have. I modeled it and it fills in the curve sag at 45 Hz and eliminates the slight peak at cutoff. But I didn't want it sticking out of the front of the horn mouth by another foot or so, as it would look ridiculous. I would rather stuff the back chamber full of foam material, which would help tame any ripples that exists in the magnitude response (commonly and incorrectly known as frequency response). Also, keep in mind that the ROOM volume and dimensions that the horn plays into will grossly outweigh any minor differences the occur with a smaller back chamber. If you have ever done sine sweeps from 20-400 Hz. in a room, you are lucky to get plus or minus 5 db, IOW, a 10 db Peak/Trough ratio, as PWK like to label it.

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Just want to remind everyone that if you build to Dave A's drawing, the front of the MWM is identical. All the additional lumber goes towards the rear of the cab, which gets slimmer as it goes further back into the corner while making more efficient use of the air space between the corner and the rear. So the net effect is it sticks out maybe 10 inches more forward. Not bad for adding 15 Hz. to the bottom with the same drivers and power.

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Three Belles deep with two Belles across the front.

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I think I will just stick with the K I S S method.

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3 hours ago, dtel said:

I think I will just stick with the K I S S method.

Well, you did add SPUD subwoofers to your MWM's. Along with 2 more amp channels. I would say that complicates things enough. Even though you have 2 MWMs stacked per channel, it didn't buy any LOWER bass, just 3 db more output, so that's why you added the Subwoofers, as did Mark 1101. Now I'm not criticizing you choices here, I did the same thing at one time and what you did sounds great. That being said, you can't claim it's simpler than a Single Super MWM, now can you?

 

In this case, we are adding a bit of LENGTH to the horn in order not to need subs for 99% of music. How much simpler can it be??

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Getting much closer to the final variant and I believe sometime tomorrow there will be a final configuration and after that complete plans later this week.

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Number one reason I'm not a tinkerer, I just listen to music, never have been one to even change out electronics without a reason.

 

I did add a spud but it was mostly for HT with 6 Forte;s but your right I did also cross it at 40 with music for 2 Ch, but it did little on most music. The main reason for 2 single MWM's on each side was I hate to say it, but to me it looked better, and it raised up the 402, mostly looks. :blush:

 

Even if I wanted to switch them out I couldn't, as it is the regular MWM on the left side comes right to a door going into the bedroom, so deeper wouldn't work at all. Not even counting all the work rebuilding and disposing of these, I'm getting to old for all of that.

 

Looking at the design it's no real difference in the build as far as being easier or harder. Even if I was interested I always went with what was proven over the long term, I'm not a tinkerer or designer, I do better at following proven designs since I just want to listen. 

 

I got rid of that Spud (gave to daughter) after comparing it to another horn design and realizing how bad it sounded, not very detailed or clean sounding. Now even with a much better sub (baby 1802) I only use it to fill in the bottom, I don't want to know it's on by hearing it over anything. I often walk up and turn off the amp to compare without it especially if the bass seems to be more than normal. Now for movies for HT, I like to know it's on especially with some movies I want house to vibrate.  :)

 

I'm not sure what you mean with " 2 more amp channels ? I use the old EV Dx 38 and that does need 4 amp channels, no choice unless going passive and that didn't look any easier at the time even without going with Rigma's monster passive crossovers, other than that it's a Crown 1002 bridged for the sub.

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9 minutes ago, dtel said:

I'm not sure what you mean with " 2 more amp channels ? I use the old EV Dx 38 and that does need 4 amp channels, no choice unless going passive and that didn't look any easier at the time even without going with Rigma's monster passive crossovers, other than that it's a Crown 1002 bridged for the sub.

I assumed you had 2 Spuds all these years. Thanks for the update. Your setup is the envy of many as you have the best looking MWM clones I've seen so far. You certainly did it right after the impression you and Christie, and daughter got ack in '07. I don't plan on building a Super MWM for myself for my little house, so Jubes will have to do. With Roy's 32 Hz. boost, I don't feel I need more for music and Netflix. Now downstairs will be all HT with subs.

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Just now, ClaudeJ1 said:

after the impression you and Christie, and daughter got ack in '07.

That was funny, I thought they were joking when they said "that's what we want", you were right there you heard them, they were not joking, that's the daughter that got the spud and some Forte's recently. 

 

Time passes, it does not feel like it's been that long, over 10 years.

 

My original plan was to build another Spud, or that other similar model that used a bigger driver, can't remember the name, but I never did add another. 

 

 I know about the out of room problem, no room left here, the living room has the MWM's, 1502 sub in the center plus 6 Forte's 2 different versions, it only works because the back three are hanging from a beam  and the front mains sit on the MWM's with the center in front of the 1502. The Cornwall lll's got kicked out of the living room to the bedroom.

 

I am glad my wife is abnormal or this would have never happened.  

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