Jump to content

400k on khorn upgrade


Recommended Posts

Hi all

 

im new to the forum and I have a question for all of you.

 

I am an owner of a pair of klipschorn.
They are 1971.

I did some upgrades to them. In order:
- Replaced the K-77 tweeter (it was the Alnico one with round magnet) with Crites new CT120.
- I replaced the crossover (type A) with crites type A/4500 (this cut the mid at 4500 to tweeter).
- re cabled all connections.

Now I still have original woofer and midrange.

The midrange has the older K55 (round magnet) and the old K400 Horn ( I believe it’s made of either cast iron of aluminum).


Now I’d like to upgrade the horn itself and switch to 2’ mid driver and here it comes my question:

I looked into different horns and driver and the below are the solutions I found:

 

Horns:

Eliptrac 400 
Volti Audio V trac 2 

 

Is is there any other option out there I can consider? 

 

deivers:

-dcm 50 ( really the only one o found for 2’ mouth)


Any pro- cons about the 2 horns and the driver above. I’d like to keep my new ct120 tweeter (that sounds great) and the A4500 crossover.

 

any help very well accepted.

Best regards 

AB

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Another option for 2" mid driver is the BMS 4592 mid. Leaves the K55 in the dust IMO. As far as 1" goes K55 is a great driver but Bob sells a replacement that is smidge better at least on paper. I think it's called the A55G. Have fun.

Oh and Welcome to the forum.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello Alberto and welcome to the forum.

Congratulations on the Klipschorns. I know you will enjoy them. 

You are now venturing from upgrades to the realm of re-design. You probably need to step carefully. What specific problem is it that you are trying to correct?

-Tom

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Since I change the tweeter with the ct120 I noticed that the mid range is a bit too horn like- metallic sound. I read quite a bit and apparently going to 2 inches mid help a lot to lowering the harshness and increasing realism. I did not hear any 2 inches mid horns on klipschorn before. Any comment well accepted.

 

thanks 

 

AB

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've heard the following:

  • The K55 is a great driver, kick ***, as Seti said.
  • The K400 "ringing" disappears when securely attached to the baffle board, rather than detached.
  • The K400 horn may have other problems
  • The K 33E woofer is fine, does not need replacement

BUT, I like the stock upgrade parts in the Klipsch AK4 and AK5.  The AK4 was introduced in about 2002, I think. The AK5 has just one resistor change from the AK4, to compensate for the introduction of the rubber horizontal wall seal in the AK5.  Do you already have a vertical wall seal?  In 1983 Klipsch began to front mount the tweeter for better dispersion.  In 1987 they introduced the K401 mid horn that was identical to the K400, but now made out of something that looks like fiberglass, for "a little less distortion," according to Klipsch.

 

The stock upgrade sounds even better with Audyssey, but it took me three tries to get it right.  For me, it increased clarity, and smoothed out the curve, as confirmed by REW.  I use Audyssey Flat for most music and movies, and Audyssey Reference (with a little dip at 2K, and roll off in the highs, -2 dB at 10 K, -6 dB at 20K) for recordings with a little distortion in the highest frequencies. 

 

One question is whether the CT120 is as sensitive (efficient) as the K77 was.  If it is a few dB too soft, the midrange may overwhelm it.  That MIGHT continue to be true with different drivers you might replace the k55 with.  Good room correction software will correct your speakers, too.  I like Audyssey, and the newest version, XT32, (about a year old) in either the more expensive Marantz or Denon processor/preamps or receivers, will probably produce very smooth response.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, it sounds like like you are insisting on a "re-design". I urge caution!

I also question your assumption that a 2 inch driver will "cure" the harshness you are hearing. 

I would not limit yourself to the two horns you have mentioned above. 

 

My personal feeling is that folks spend too much money and energy worrying about the driver rather than worrying about the horn. 

Again, I would caution against  a re-design of a engineered system. It can quickly become very tricky.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm going to guess you do not live in the States...  just a hunch.

 

That said....  if you've got the access....desire....funds.... and understanding better half....

 

You might consider the upgrades that PWK himself pursued.....  he ended up with an entirely different speaker. taking the Khorn back to his (originally intended) 2-way design and sort of replaced it with the Jubilee.

 

Now you can have a speaker with the same footprint as your Khorn, 2" throat horn on top that sounds fabulous and the intelligibility of a 2-way verses the 3-way.

 

Your pursuits, though perhaps sounding fantastic, are morphing your Klipschorn into a Frankin-Klipsch with the various add-on parts.

 

Jubilee gets you most of those gains and keeps everything Klipsch.

 

Oh, and once you start listening to 2" throat horns.....  those with 1" are going to start sounding small.

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

52 minutes ago, Coytee said:

I'm going to guess you do not live in the States...  just a hunch.

 

That said....  if you've got the access....desire....funds.... and understanding better half....

 

You might consider the upgrades that PWK himself pursued.....  he ended up with an entirely different speaker. taking the Khorn back to his (originally intended) 2-way design and sort of replaced it with the Jubilee.

 

Now you can have a speaker with the same footprint as your Khorn, 2" throat horn on top that sounds fabulous and the intelligibility of a 2-way verses the 3-way.

 

Your pursuits, though perhaps sounding fantastic, are morphing your Klipschorn into a Frankin-Klipsch with the various add-on parts.

 

Jubilee gets you most of those gains and keeps everything Klipsch.

 

Oh, and once you start listening to 2" throat horns.....  those with 1" are going to start sounding small.

 

 

 

Hi coytee,

great answer. You may be right.

 

im indeed from Italy.

 

is there anywhere where I can find schematic of the jubilee. I’ve seen before but never really though they could be an option.

 

is anybody around here ever built them?

 

best

 

ab

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Though there are plans posted in various places, I don't know that any of them are official (in fact, I rather doubt that any of them are 'approved')

 

None the less....  the bass bin would be easy enough (for a competent wood worker) the secret sauce is getting the big K402 horn on top.

 

It's the K402 that seems to be where the magic is.  It works well on a variety of bass bins.  I don't know how to reach anyone anymore... but there was a pair in Cologne (Koln) Germany and a couple pair in / near London.  Over time, there might be another one or two but there are certainly not many (should you care to hear them to see what it's all about)

 

In case you don't know....  realize that PWK set out to take the 3-way Khorn back to a 2-way.  Roy Delgado was helping him out.  When it was all said & done, the Jubilee was created.  Unfortunately, things went different in the corporate world and the company decided to not put the Jubilee in the residential lineup.....but..... realized it (the Jubilee) was so good, it would fit in the cinema lineup so, that is where you can find info on it.

 

If you can get your hands on the K402, the rest (in my opinion) is going to be relatively easy.  (buy a bass bin, have one built...  use a different bass bin)

 

 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

36 minutes ago, Deang said:

You can buy them from Al in kit form.

 

A 2" driver has 4x the surface area, and will produce a lot less IM distortion.

 

Well when I contacted Dave Harris through the email link on Al's site, his reply was that he no longer makes horns.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Using a K-402 horn is always a great idea. 

 

However, they are big and expensive (very few on the used market and difficult to ship). It is what I use at home.

 

A couple of more reasonable alternatives

1. K-510 horn. This is the little brother of the K-402. It is smaller (the face is about 15x9 inch) so it is easier to integrate into a cabinet/system. With a new baffle it should fit into the top hat of a Klipsch horn.

2. Electrovoice HP640. Great sounding horn although it is larger and would require some wood working of the top hat.

 

Both these have 2 inch throats.The drivers I like are the used (or new) JBL 2445 or 2446's They come up on eBay frequently. The OEM diaphragms are not terribly expensive, although you can upgrade to a beryllium diaphragm if you want a no-compromise system (an even more expensive way is a TAD 4002)

 

A note of warning: These are constant dispersion horns (a big plus in my book) so they are best used with an electronic crossover.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ciao!

 

Before you toss the squawker horn, try wrapping the outside with an automobile sound damping material like Dynamat. 

https://www.amazon.com/Dynamat-10455-Self-Adhesive-Deadener-Xtreme/dp/B00020CB2S

It will dampen left over vibrations in the aluminum K-400.  I found it made a noticeable difference, a calming of the sound. Warm it with a hair dryer or by putting it in the sun before applying it. 

 

For your situation, I would choose the Eliptrac 400 and change the tweeter to a Fastrac tweeter horn and a B&C DE120 driver.  Both horns have a Tractrix expansion curve. The Fastrac horn mouth is flush with the front of the cabinet.  The Fastrac/DE120 combo is silky smooth and mates perfectly with the K-55/K-400. 

 

Replacing a K-55-V is a difficult proposition.  It can safely respond down to 110 Hz, so a gentle slope crossover like the Type A is not hard on the driver. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...