Any shot at Klipschorns in this room? Or Jubes?

[PrestonTom]

My 2 cents .....

The one photo of the unfinished 1/2 corner wall (in my living room) looked fine once it was painted to match the room. It was made of 3/4 mdf on both sides of a 2x4 skeleton and weighed about 100 lbs. The trim complemented the architecture of my house so it looked like it "belonged".

 

All the force was going down toward gravity, so it only needed a couple of hidden anchors to attach it to the wall brackets so it would not tip over. It was sturdy and massive enough for a a living room, you really don't need to go crazy and over build the beast.

It was used when I had Klipschorns and I was able to get a great listener-speaker angle. I had great bass and a huge stereo image. It was reversible with just a few small holes to patch on the drywall. 

 

Regarding site of the wall: my jubilees are on a wall in my den that is only 11 feet wide (the depth is 27 feet). I positioned my chair at that end so the listening angle can be between 50-70 degrees. That gives a great stereo image also. 

 

In other words, please don't get worried about false corners or putting them in a narrow room. You will be rewarded!

 

Good Luck,

-Tom

[avguytx]

I appreciate everyone's input and valid points.  I doubt it would be Klipschorns I go with as I just won't have a desire to spend $2.5k to $4k on a pair.  At that top end used price, I would most likely use my past resources in the A/V business and buy a set at Accommodation or Rep Sample price through dealers I know in 5 states.  At least there would be minimal "updates" to do to them.  If I pulled that off, I'd probably have to agree to buying new furniture for the living room.  ha

 

I do think those Jube bass bins would be fun to build, though.  No corners required.  But to start, it will be the Belle's that I've barely had time to enjoy which aren't even broken in yet.

[mark1101]

I have one Jub in a corner and the other in what I have always thought was a disadvantaged position against a wall with doorways around it............but it seems to make little to no difference in sound or measurements.  A Khorn in the same location would require false corners and would take up much more space.  I have heard Khorns with the false corners and they work very well.............but look at those things.  Jubs don't need those at all.  Much more flexible and better performance all around.  Seems a no brainer to me.

[Chris A]

3 hours ago, avguytx said:

I know that 402 horn would have some trouble with that slope of the ceiling not to mention the reflections off the ceiling.  Unless maybe a 510 horn was used.

How do you know this? 

 

Actually, in my experience, it will be the opposite way around: the K-402 will perform superbly if aimed carefully, but the K-510s will splash midrange energy around the room and will lead to timbre shifts that must be "salt-and-peppered" using small amounts of EQ while listening to a variety of recordings using EQ to rebalance timbre.

 

Chris

[Chris A]

55 minutes ago, mark1101 said:

I have one Jub in a corner and the other in what I have always thought was a disadvantaged position against a wall with doorways around it............but it seems to make little to no difference in sound or measurements.

I'm pretty sure that if you measure the unsupported Jub bass bin, you'll see a loss of performance below about 100 Hz.  Bass gets a little difficult to hear directionally below 80-100 Hz, so that's probably what you're hearing: the other bass bin is taking up the slack.

 

Chris

[muel]

I can tell you my experience with a low sloped ceiling screwing with my imaging in crazy ways with all the added first reflections.  If the ceiling, speakers and your seat are not symmetrical (well, walls too) you can wind up with some crazy image shifting.  Imagine the singer sitting in front of you and then jumping 6 feet (or more, or less) to the side at times.  You might also find your self wanting absorption or diffusion at the first reflections on the ceiling.  Even that didn't fix the imaging for me.   I would start experimenting with what you planned but plan on moving them to your other 2 walls to hear which works best.  I'd try this before moving too much in there... Just a chair, speakers and minimal equipment.   You have others chiming in with a lot more knowledge than me.  

[Chris A]

The comments that muel made on the room asymmetries messing with imaging are also my experience, too.  That's usually something that you have to spend a little time compensating for after you get everything in the room playing. 

 

I have a room asymmetry about 6 feet behind the listening positions whereby an under-stair closet enters the room on a taper farther back in the room, then ending in a perpendicular wall facing the right loudspeaker at the front of the room.  I simply added a similar reflective bookcase of approximately the same dimensions on the opposite side of the room, perpendicular to the side wall.  The problems with imaging in that area of the room were dramatically decreased (but not completely eliminated due to having a room discontinuity along the side walls). 

[avguytx]

47 minutes ago, Chris A said:

How do you know this? 

 

Actually, in my experience, it will be the opposite way around: the K-402 will perform superbly if aimed carefully, but the K-510s will splash midrange energy around the room and will lead to timbre shifts that must be "salt-and-peppered" using small amounts of EQ while listening to a variety of recordings using EQ to rebalance timbre.

 

Chris

 

Ok...maybe  "know" is the wrong word but highly assume because of those room angles.  I dealt with that with home theater designs for years in retail and as a rep working with dealers in their designs.  There's definitely more tools now to work with than there was 10 years ago, though.  I'm not looking for perfection in this room....I'm just happy to have a large space that's all mine with no interference from my wife.  ha.  I'll work with the Belle's to start and address any reflections that room will have when the time comes; I've got to get the house built, first.  

[rplace]

Not trying to hijack the thread too much but why is it Khorns with false corners or Jubes? What about Khorns with sealed backs? I've never heard a pair, but wondering how a sealed back would be on the area where the top red circle is. Bottom location has a perfectly good looking corner so you would have 3 out of the 4 needed walls to finish the horns.

 

I've not kept up on used khorn prices but are they really pushing $4K on the upper end? I can see the 2.5K if pretty nice. I sold a Teak pair 5-6 yeas ago for $1,500 IIRC...and thought teak was on the rare side.

[avguytx]

I still ponder building some Klipschorns or Speakerlab "K" cabinets at some point "just because".  There may be better horn loaded variations out there to work with, like the Jubilee and other people's preferences, but it's more for the fun of it.  It would be a project done way after we get in the new house as I'll need garage cabinets, etc., first.  I guess one of the main reasons I consider doing a Khorn "clone" is because I would have all of the parts to just switch them over, sans a pair of K-400/401's horns.  I don't know...just pondering.  

[avguytx]

Are there any other options available for the mid horn versus trying to find a pair of K-400's?  There used to be but I believe those have all slimmed down.

[AHall]

6 hours ago, avguytx said:

Are there any other options available for the mid horn versus trying to find a pair of K-400's?  There used to be but I believe those have all slimmed down.

I’ll have a pair of k400s available for sale very soon. 

[Chief bonehead]

On 6/28/2018 at 3:54 PM, avguytx said:

I really wanted to use the long wall for speakers but I have thought about using them that direction as well.  Seems like I'd have to sit closer to them to be in the "good spot".  I had a pair years ago in a room where the long wall (in my office) was only about 13 feet apart and that was too close.  With this being only 14'-6" +/-, it's not that much bigger.  Unfortunately, I can't make the room more "optimum" given its location above the 3 car garage.  

 

This is an exert from the "What You Need to Know About Installing Klipschorns" article....

 

Ideally the corners should be at least 8’ but less than 20’ apart with the ability to place the listener at least as far back from the plane of the speakers as they are apart. In situations where the Klipschorns will be greater than 20 feet apart a proper stereo image may not develop between your speakers. A third speaker, such as the La Scala II, can be installed in between widely spaced Klipschorns and fed a mono signal to compensate for this:

I would use the short wall. And you would be surprised at how big your sweet spot might be.