Room acoustics gurus, please step in.........

[Shakeydeal]

I have what I feel is a pretty good room. A lot of different speakers from Open Baffle to Planars to cones in a box have sounded very good to excellent in here. The room is 15 x  26 and is dedicated to the purpose of listening to music. I have echo tunes in the upper corners for slap back echo, I have two free standing acoustic panels and three bass traps (fireplace in one corner). Right now the khorns are where the two big traps used to live. There is a big overstuffed listening chair, ottoman and a loveseat for furnishings and heavy drapes on the window behind the listening seat.

 

I know that horns excite a room differently than most speakers. I invite you to look at the pics below and offer advice on room treatment types and locations. I am free to do whatever I like to the room. The only thing that will not change are the position of the rack and the wall mounted turntable. Anything else is fair game.

 

Thanks for looking...........

 

 

 

 

[jcmusic]

Measure the room using REW and a cal. mic, then you have usefull info.

[Shakeydeal]

As much as I'm sure that is helpful and accurate, I would rather have suggestions of where khorn owners have been successful in placing room treatments. I guess I'm just lazy.....🙄

[Don Richard]

Treat the primary reflection points on both sides of the Khorns' top hats with absorptive materials, such as heavy drapes over the doors near the speakers, and absorptive panels on the front walls. Sit in the listening position and have someone slide a mirror on the front wall until the mid and high horns can be seen in the mirror. That is the proper location for the panels.

[Delicious2]

Nice looking room.  It's a bit difficult to tell with the camera distortion but the mid horn axis may be crossing far in front of the listeners.  My experience in my similar size room is that won't really sound good or at least up to the Khorn potential.  Consider orienting them along the long wall opposite the fireplace.  That way the mid/tweet axis could cross slightly in front/at the MLP or slightly behind. 

 

As far as treatments I got a better sound-stage and center image focus by removing everything possible in between the speakers and putting thick soft fabric (bathmats) tacked to the walls on either side of the mid/tweet mouth and on top of the cabinet draped slightly over the top front edge to absorb energy that might bounce off the ceiling.  I put bathmats at the bottom front edge as well but your carpeting should take care of most floor bounce/reflection.

[JohnA]

Pull the grilles and use a narrow beam flashlight or laser and see where the center and walls of the squawker horn would strike the walls and ceiling/floor, if sound was light.  Place absorbents there.  Bass traps in the back corners.  You may have to try the bass traps in several locations.  A persian rug could be a nice looking absorber. 

[Shiva]

I know I have posted this vid here before, but it still amuses in regards to the change in the in room sound.  Since you are free to do what ever you want,  buy a big stack of acoustic foam, a roll of two sided tape,  start slapping it up and see what happens. Or if you are truly lazy, get someone else to do it, while you sit in your chair and direct the action. 😊

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cp56A6TcL1E&frags=pl%2Cwn

[Shakeydeal]

Thanks for the suggestions. It's really not possible to put the speakers on the long wall.

 

It's hard to tell, but the listening chair is just about on an equilateral triangle with the plane of the speakers. I am not willing to sit any closer than that. I am prepared to remove the stuff off the rear wall and treat that, but not sure exactly where on the wall, or how much is necessary.

 

I am currently using two Roomtunes free standing panels and the unused bass traps at the approximate first refection points. I may need something on the ceiling too, since it's only 8 ft. high.

 

Shakey

 

 

[rplace]

I read a lot, clapped my hands a lot, thought about what I read then just jumped in. I'm quite happy with the results in my room. If anything it is slightly on the dead side which is great for movies but a tad lifeless for music. For sure better than when nothing was in place.

 

 I've got absorption around the entire perimeter where the ceiling meets the walls and larger absorption in the front corners. Look close at wall/ceiling junction they are black/red closely matching the paint.

 

Both the left and right walls have absorption at/near the first reflection. I was trying to strike the balance between function and aesthetics. Directly above the seating area (not picture) I have about 8-10 square feet of diffusion.

 

Not sure why the 3rd picture is so small - Click it. There are French doors with absorption over the entire glass surface much like the diamond shaped ones on the right wall

 

Rear wall is cubes full of LPs which act a diffusers. I bought diffusion panels for the rear, but went with LPs instead.

[Shakeydeal]

Great looking room and system!

 

[rplace]

6 minutes ago, Shakeydeal said:

Great looking room and system!

 

Thanks

 

I just took some pix of the ceiling. I forgot absorption in front diffusion above seats. Hard to photograph with everything black.

 

 

 

 

[Shakeydeal]

Did you make all of that, or purchase?

 

 

[rplace]

33 minutes ago, Shakeydeal said:

Did you make all of that, or purchase?

 

 

 

I bought it. Along with some fancy acoustic glue....pretty sure just liquid nails with high zoot cost. I can't imagine it really helped, but figured with all the rest of the cash into the build what was another 50-100 just in case. The diffusion panels are 1 foot square so looks like I have more than I thought. It was white and a bit of a PITA to paint. All the foam pieces on walls/ceiling came that color. Red diamonds on the wall are also 1' square. I the black panels on ceiling/doors are 2'X2'. Easy to cut if you need to. Its only time and money if you don't like it....and some drywall work if you tear it down. I did it in 2005 I think and by far one of the best changes at any cost.

 

EDIT: Here is the company https://www.auralex.com/

 

 

[Chris A]

When you sit in the main listening position (I assume it's on the couch at the back of the room next to the fireplace), what is it that you hear that's causing you to ask these questions here?  Is it:

 

1) boominess,

2) distorted imaging or poor phantom center image,

3) poor sense of acoustic space (ambience),

4) too much or too little deep bass,

5) harsh sound or too recessed sounding top end,

6) poor sense of presence,

7) ill-defined midrange/midbass balance or clarity,

8). some combination of the above,

9)  something not mentioned above,

10) no complaints at all...?

 

Chris

[Shakeydeal]

That is NOT the listening seat. I didn't capture it very well but there is a chair between that loveseat and the front wall.

 

Imaging is very good.

 

Bass is very good.

 

Highs are very good.

 

There is a slight sharpness on some recordings that can be directly attributed to the midrange. These are not poor recordings and have been known to sound good on other speakers. But I do NOT hear this issue with all recordings. I am about 95% happy with the sound. Just looking for that elusive 5%.

 

Shakey

[Chris A]

25 minutes ago, Shakeydeal said:

There is a slight sharpness on some recordings that can be directly attributed to the midrange. These are not poor recordings and have been known to sound good on other speakers. But I do NOT hear this issue with all recordings.

Have you tried some thick fuzzy material across the top of the top hats, perhaps placing something absorbent in front of the bass bins up to about 4" below the midrange horn mouths?  The Heritage series of loudspeakers have a bit of a "wandering coverage" in both the vertical and horizontal directions (with the most effect that you mention usually traced to the vertical direction)--similar to the figure below for the Heresy Industrial:

 

 

Placing something on top and directly in front touching the bass bins will tend to soak up that frequency-specific excess energy in the vertical direction without disrupting the imaging or timbre balance.  It costs very little to try these suggestions.  Treating the ceiling is a bit more involved and less effective since the distance to the ceiling is much greater than the top hat and the front bass bin panel.

 

Chris

[rplace]

Khorns are a lot more revealing, IMO, compared to (my same room) Chorus 1, Forte 11, Heresy and other locations I've heard Cornwall, Heresy. What XOs do you have can you attenuate the mids at all? I liked the liveliness of my AK-2s but for extended periods it was fatiguing. SuperAA/ALK Jr's fixed that but at first it sounded subdued to me. Eventually I was weened off my AK-2 XOs

[Shakeydeal]

Chris,

 

I am having a hard time visualizing what you are suggesting.

 

rplace,

 

I have the Volti VX xovers. I have the mid attenuatd to -3.81db. More attenuation helps with the issue on some recordings, but the magic is lost on others. I would rather live with less attenuation than more.

 

Shakey

[Chris A]

So you'll not try it out because you have "a hard time visualizing..."?

 

That's okay.  You asked for suggestions and you get to choose among from among those offered (...and at great personal cost to those offering them...😀)

 

Chris

[Shakeydeal]

6 minutes ago, Chris A said:

So you'll not try it out because you have "a hard time visualizing..."?

 

That's okay.  You asked for suggestions and you get to choose among from among those offered (...and at great personal cost to those offering them...😀)

 

Chris

 

 

Easy big fella. I didn't say I wouldn't try it. When I say "I'm having a hard time visualizing it", that's your cue to explain further.........or not. Your choice.