Audio Android Posted July 1, 2018 Share Posted July 1, 2018 Hi everyone, thanks for tuning in... Haven't been here for awhile and I'm getting the itch to build my own amp... My Grandfather was an electrical engineer for BellAircraft in the 40's and helped with the electronics in the first X-Planes... This has nothing to do with what i'm doing I'm just proud, Ya'know..... Plus I'm hoping some of his elecTRONic genes have seeped into my soft tissue to maybe help me out a little along the way..... My price range is around the $400-$500 range...... I've found these two interesting kits from Akitika the GT-102 and from Decware ZenKit60.... Both around 60 WPC I've just started my research and don't know where to go or who has better kits... I keep hearing about FirstPASS clones....I don't know if they are kits.... I don't know..... I need Help ThankYou. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Android Posted July 1, 2018 Author Share Posted July 1, 2018 I literally started my search on FridayNight.... Thought I definitely should ask you Guys and Gals before I get lost tryin to make my own way... I figure somebody here has some great directions. Thanks Again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wdecho Posted July 1, 2018 Share Posted July 1, 2018 I assume you have Klipsch speakers. This is a complete kit which should provide enough power for most with Klipsch speakers in average size room. https://diyaudiostore.com/collections/kits/products/amp-camp-amp-kit?variant=7072933085218 Here are the boards to build a Firstwatt clone and most have build instructions in the links but the cost to build one is going to exceed your budget $700 up. https://diyaudiostore.com/collections/printed-circuit-boards Link for tons of info on diy FW clones. http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pass-labs/ I have built most of them and will be glad to offer assistance for questions if you decide to try. The diyaudio forum is very helpful as well. I have built the Decware Zen Triode 2 watt amplifier just using the schematic and it is a very nice tube amplifier. There are very few complete kits for building tube amplifiers but this guy has them and I have built some of his using his schematics and they are very good but will cost about the same as a Firstwatt clone. http://www.oddwattaudio.com/owproducts.html With some electronic background you should not have any trouble building a Firstwatt clone and will be rewarded with an outstanding amplifier when finished. I started building them a few years back with just a few electronic courses years ago without much trouble. Class D has come a long way and putting together a quality amplifier is very easy. Here is a place to start. The TPA 3255 is an outstanding amplifier without costing much which will hold it's own with any amplifier. Cost will be in the neighborhood of $300 to complete. https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/172028-class-d/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Android Posted July 2, 2018 Author Share Posted July 2, 2018 Thanks for your response WDECHO... I guess my expectations were a little high when I wrote "Hi Everyone".... The diyaudio.com site was a great lead, thank you... The FW clones do seem a bit over my price range.. Also that was the reason for not putting up Tube Kits because I believe the nicer ones are out of my range as well... The Akitika GT-102 is a class AB amp that I've heard really good things about and, I've always respected Decware as a brand...... Your thread on Class D is huge... I'll look through it and I'm positive that will help me also... I heard great things about the Emotiva XB-100 as a good little amp and, well started researching it, and found a video by Steve "TheAudiophiliac" Guttenberg on YouTube recommending the Akitika. It seemed like he was VERY impressed with the GT-102 so I just started researching DIY projects and here I am. It seems like you hold the TPA 3255 in high regard I will check it out.. Thanks wdecho..! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Full Range Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 Be aware that kits are generally made / offered at a price point Changing the components by using better capacitors and resistors can double your cost I know this from experience building 3 First Watt amps, but results are also noticeable so to me money well spent 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Android Posted July 2, 2018 Author Share Posted July 2, 2018 Yes, I've been dayDREAMing all weekend about turning a well designed amp kit into some mutant hybrid miniature inertial fusion power plant by making small changes to its low powered schematics... I won a prize for it.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Android Posted July 2, 2018 Author Share Posted July 2, 2018 32 minutes ago, Full Range said: I know this from experience building 3 First Watt amps How did those sound,,,,Anything come close for the money spent compared to off the shelf amps..??? Any other kits I should look into...??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wdecho Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 3 hours ago, Audio Android said: How did those sound,,,,Anything come close for the money spent compared to off the shelf amps..??? Any other kits I should look into...??? Class A is class A whether tube or SS. The difference is the active device, tube or transistor. Firstwatt amps are Class A. For comparison of a retail Firswatt amplifier look here and the other Nelson Pass line Passlabs. http://www.firstwatt.com/prod.html They start around $3,000. and Passlabs, https://www.passlabs.com/ Building one is a deal. http://www.renohifi.com/FirstInStock.htm These two will introduce you to the better D amplifiers for not a lot of cash. https://www.ebay.com/itm/TPA3255-Digital-Power-Amplifier-Class-D-Audio-Amp-Assembled-Board-300W-300W-HiFi/272810431819?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649 This PS with 7.5 amps is plenty enough using our speakers, https://www.parts-express.com/mean-well-mw-nes-350-48-48-vdc-73a-350w-regulated-switching-power-supply--320-3143 To achieve full power you want this one, https://www.parts-express.com/mean-well-mw-se-600-48-48-vdc-125a-600w-regulated-power-supply--320-317 There is one cheaper at Parts Express but not regulated, 48V. By the way MaggieValley NC is my favorite vacation getaway. Perfect spot for natural beauty nestled in the mountains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Full Range Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 4 hours ago, Audio Android said: How did those sound,,,,Anything come close for the money spent compared to off the shelf amps..??? Any other kits I should look into...??? First Watt designs are a special breed of amps All have a different sound signature and are in most cases 25 A class watts For my klipsch speakers I find the M2 and F6 designs in that order to be the best amps that bring out the best attributes of the speakers 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 5 hours ago, Audio Android said: I guess my expectations were a little high when I wrote "Hi Everyone".... I'm not sure what you were expecting. You posted in the wrong section (Lounge), you're lucky anyone found your post which quickly gets buried if it is not responded to quickly. When building a solid state amp, there is the Solid State sub-forum or the Tech/mods sub=forum. If you are building a tube amp, post in that sub-forum. There are lots of friendly, knowledgeable folks like Mr. @wdecho who can help. In terms of your expectations, you might also consider most of us have NOT built amp kits. I've never built an amp and I can't even solder a wire without setting my hair on fire. I'm always happy to help but you probably want someone who knows what the heck they are talking about, not me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Android Posted July 2, 2018 Author Share Posted July 2, 2018 7 hours ago, wvu80 said: I guess my expectations were a little high when I wrote "Hi Everyone".... This was a joke, obviously a real knee slapper.... I was hoping for input on both SS and Tube kits and thats why I posted in the Lounge.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Android Posted July 3, 2018 Author Share Posted July 3, 2018 15 hours ago, Full Range said: First Watt designs are a special breed of amps All have a different sound signature and are in most cases 25 A class watts For my klipsch speakers I find the M2 and F6 designs in that order to be the best amps that bring out the best attributes of the speakers Thank You Full Range for your response.. I will look at those Amps The M2 and F6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Android Posted July 3, 2018 Author Share Posted July 3, 2018 17 hours ago, wdecho said: Class A is class A whether tube or SS. The difference is the active device, tube or transistor. Firstwatt amps are Class A. For comparison of a retail Firswatt amplifier look here and the other Nelson Pass line Passlabs. http://www.firstwatt.com/prod.html They start around $3,000. and Passlabs, https://www.passlabs.com/ Building one is a deal. http://www.renohifi.com/FirstInStock.htm These two will introduce you to the better D amplifiers for not a lot of cash. https://www.ebay.com/itm/TPA3255-Digital-Power-Amplifier-Class-D-Audio-Amp-Assembled-Board-300W-300W-HiFi/272810431819?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649 This PS with 7.5 amps is plenty enough using our speakers, https://www.parts-express.com/mean-well-mw-nes-350-48-48-vdc-73a-350w-regulated-switching-power-supply--320-3143 To achieve full power you want this one, https://www.parts-express.com/mean-well-mw-se-600-48-48-vdc-125a-600w-regulated-power-supply--320-317 There is one cheaper at Parts Express but not regulated, 48V. I'm very happy you saw and responded to my post... I can't thank you enough....... Those little Class-D's can output 300 watts....And they sound good..???... The TPA3255 IS.... $60 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Full Range Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 7 hours ago, Audio Android said: Thank You Full Range for your response.. I will look at those Amps The M2 and F6 In this thread you will see an F6 build and my review of the 2 amps in question about half way down https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/176320-firstwatt-f6-build/&tab=comments#comment-2271730 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wdecho Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 6 hours ago, Audio Android said: I'm very happy you saw and responded to my post... I can't thank you enough....... Those little Class-D's can output 300 watts....And they sound good..???... The TPA3255 IS.... $60 Excellent sounding. I had been following the TPA3255 for many months if not years before a reasonably priced one became available. When introduced the Texas Instrument board was very expensive, something like $300 or $400. The price has since came down, https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Texas-Instruments/TPA3255EVM?qs=%2fha2pyFaduhTG7MALkZnEkjmi7Uua86kwNeL04jMIDY%3d. This is a Texas Instrument board and the one on Ebay is a Chinese copy. I have both and I cannot tell any difference. The TI board was discounted in the past and the deal may still be offered. The details are in the thread you have been reading. I would think better parts are on the TI board. With the switching PS at Parts express and the Chinese board you can judge for yourself for not much money. If you like the sound (I believe you will be thrilled) you can then put both parts in a case. You will not need a case to hook everything up. No harder than hooking up an amplifier to a speaker. You will need some way to control the volume, pre or buffer. Some potentiometers will work fine as well or a passive pre on Amazon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Full Range Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 You don’t need 300 watts to drive sensitive Klipsch speakers Don’t fall in that trap of - bigger is better - 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wdecho Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 Last night I listened with my Maynard designed "little sweetie" with 1 or 2 watts. Plenty loud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codewritinfool Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 I’m presently at 35 WPC with a class A/AB amp and it is plenty on Khorns. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Android Posted July 4, 2018 Author Share Posted July 4, 2018 The first kit I was actually thinking about making Years ago was an S.E.T Decware tube amp SE84C...2 Watts I believe..... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1ENOdYN6iA I know how efficient our speakers are, and why NelsonPass named some of his designs "FirstWatt"... I have FORTE II's by the way...Nothin too crazy.....But still Dangerous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twk123 Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 15 hours ago, Full Range said: You don’t need 300 watts to drive sensitive Klipsch speakers Don’t fall in that trap of - bigger is better - The 300W is for 4 Ohm I believe. The thing about Class D is they operate best with lots of headroom. They sound really good at low power but fall apart pretty fast when driven too hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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