Guest wdecho Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 While we are on the subject of my speakers, I have 3 different combinations at the present time I can change between utilizing the LaScala bass bin. The stock LaScala using a type AA I built, another with a full range driver crossing over to the bass bin with a 1st order network at 500hz and another consisting of the Altec 511b horn with the Selenium driver and after market tweeter horn utilizing either the APT50 driver or a selenium driver utilizing a crossover I designed and built for my taste. All sound great in their own way. The stock LaScala and the Altec horn setup sound very much alike except that the Altec horn has a larger more room filling sound stage. The full range driver is something I have recently been experimenting with and it does have the best sound stage of them all but then it is employed in a open baffle setting. It is easy to switch between the 3 different combinations by simply removing and replacing 3 wires. I also have many other speakers I restore and play with as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ODS123 Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 Seeing and reading about all that stuff makes it clear that you an audio hobbyist who enjoys endlessly tinkering. ..Something that is definitely to be lauded and respected. But it's also predictable that you're probably not going to like ANY speaker right out of the box. ..And will almost certainly prefer dismantling and re-engineering a speaker to a simple turn of a treble knob. ..That is fine of course. But that doesn't mean an equalizer and/or tone-controls wouldn't be the far better way of tailoring music for the vast majority of audio, or make that music lovers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjp Posted July 14, 2018 Author Share Posted July 14, 2018 What was this thread about? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 Somewhere it got sidetracked with L-pads... (I was going to comment, but I'll let it go). I'm would love a pair of HIIIs, but having a pair of HIIs works fine for me. They sound great on the 2A3 amps I use, can't really tell there are speakers there, just the music. Enjoy! Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 I bet HIII's sound just as good as HII's... or HI's for that matter. With or without attenuation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEH Synergy Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 I have both HI and HIII and they certainly do not IMO. HIII TRUMP the H1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 They certainly do sound just as good... read the post again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakeydeal Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 14 minutes ago, Westcoastdrums said: I have both HI and HIII and they certainly do not IMO. HIII TRUMP the H1. How dare you question the "mighty schu"...... 10 lashes at dawn for you...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEH Synergy Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 Think I've taken enough lashes already Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 Hahaha... knuckleheads. We're saying the same thing. Trying reading, the HIII sound just as good as a HII... not worse. (That means they can sound better to). I blame the wacky @jimjimbo for the insanity and interpretation issues... because he's insane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEH Synergy Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 OK no comparison between the models, just that they all sound good and don't need to be messed with to do so. Ambiguity at its finest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimbo Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 1 hour ago, Schu said: I bet HIII's sound just as good as HII's... or HI's for that matter. With or without attenuation. No wonder you suck at cards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimbo Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 1 hour ago, Schu said: Hahaha... knuckleheads. We're saying the same thing. Trying reading, the HIII sound just as good as a HII... not worse. (That means they can sound better to). I blame the wacky @jimjimbo for the insanity and interpretation issues... because he's insane. good for you. Happy for you. What a guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 I'm pretty sure the HIIIs sound better that my HIIs... I trust Klipsch enough to believe this, and for sure, better than the originals. I just wish I could afford a pair of the IIIs. Bruce 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEH Synergy Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 They are and the difference isn't subtle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 I think the IIs are miles ahead of the originals, so that doesn't/wouldn't surprise me at all. Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wdecho Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 On 7/13/2018 at 8:06 AM, rjp said: You have the resistance part right but are missing the point we are trying to make about the frequency dependency of the speaker. The diagram you posted above may help illustrate this as follows. Let's call the impedance of the speaker be Z3. Now the input resistance to this network that the crossover sees (on the left side) is Zin = R1 + (R2 * Z3)/(R2 + Z3) Now using the values indicated in the diagram for R1 and R2 we get Zin = 2.34 + 19.39*Z3/(19.39 + Z3) Now if we let Z3 be exactly 8 ohms, solving for Zin gives Z3 = 8 >> Zin = 2.34 + 19.39*Z3/(19.39 + Z3) Zin = 8.0034 Which is almost exactly 8 ohms. Which is the goal of this properly designed L-pad,. (This is your point I believe) But this speaker is not always 8 ohms. Its actual impedance changes with frequency. Let's suppose that at a certain frequency the speaker's impedance is 16 ohms, then re-evaluate the same equation setting Z3 to 16. Z3 =16 >> Zin = 2.34 + 19.39*Z3/(19.39 + Z3) Zin = 11.1063 Now we see that the load the crossover sees is approximately 11 ohms, but if the speaker was connected to the crossover without this L-pad it would be 16 ohms. Hence the introduction of the L-pad changes the load presented by the speaker on the crossover. Hopefully this helps clear things up. I just noticed that you are the OP, original poster of this thread. Why are you complaining on a social media forum about a too hot speaker you have just bought when you are now showing with the above formula and calculations that you have the ability and electronic background to understand why in your opinion that adding a simple out of the box L-pad is not the correct way of attenuating a too hot driver in a pair of new speakers you have just purchased? Why are you not just reverse engineer the crossover installed in your speakers to understand the circuit the engineers at Klipsch deemed as sounding best for their new pair of Heresy speakers. After understanding how the circuit works then use the formulas and electronic calculations to add a few more db's of attenuation and still keep the integrity of the original design. I believe I could and from this post you seem to have a better understanding of electronic formulas and calculations than I do. Or if you do not want to do it this way then design a new crossover to suit your expectations on how a crossover network should be designed. I am more confused now about your complaining on a social media forum about a new pair of speakers when you are showing you have the ability to correct the problem without any help from anyone here. Very confusing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wdecho Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 14 hours ago, ODS123 said: Seeing and reading about all that stuff makes it clear that you an audio hobbyist who enjoys endlessly tinkering. ..Something that is definitely to be lauded and respected. But it's also predictable that you're probably not going to like ANY speaker right out of the box. ..And will almost certainly prefer dismantling and re-engineering a speaker to a simple turn of a treble knob. ..That is fine of course. But that doesn't mean an equalizer and/or tone-controls wouldn't be the far better way of tailoring music for the vast majority of audio, or make that music lovers. I can agree with you on most everything you say. For the masses who are not that serious about their music tone controls or equalizers are the easiest way to go. But then the way most listen these days are with MP3's and buds. When I bought my LaScala's I did not have a woodworking shop to build my own set of speakers. I would prefer now, if I want to experience a new pair speakers is build it myself. The Cornscala is a good example to build, not horn loaded bass but I consider bass to be over rated myself. The mids are where music lives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ODS123 Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 5 hours ago, wdecho said: For the masses who are not that serious about their music tone controls or equalizers are the easiest way to go. Sorry but I didn't mean to imply this. ..In fact, I very much disagree. Using myself as an example, I will use my tone controls to make a wonderful song that is poorly recored listenable, whereas the ardent audiophile will often simply chose to never listen to that same song. ..which is a shame because there is TONS of great songs that are quite poorly recorded. Moreover, in my life I have seen the most extensive music collections - LP and CD - belonging to people w/ full-feature receivers/ integrateds rather than purist audiophiles w/ minimalist featureless gear.. Indeed, some of the latter have barely 50-60 albums. So no, I DON'T think tone controls are used by those who aren't serious about their music. ..In fact, I believe the converse is true. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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