JohnJ Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 1 hour ago, dtel said: Probably won't see him for a few weeks but we will spend a week with him, going to see a friend and of course fishing, his favorite hobby, Lake Okeechobee , this should be good, I have never fished there. Mr. "DoTell", Let Mr. Delgado know that I got mine the first month they came out and still love `em, a set of in good shape LaScalas almost swayed me away from them, but not quite! 43 minutes ago, Coytee said: Why not just biamp and get it over with! (active crossover variety) Amplifiers $$ Wires $ But you know that already! @babadono Nice find! Lowered IMD! I knew I heard a difference, with the sensitivity of my speakers that is three times more (theirs are 90db, F3s are 99db) it could possibly be even more discernable 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted July 5, 2018 Moderators Share Posted July 5, 2018 Thought about making a list of questions, will have plenty of car time. DoTell, that's funny, but I don't, it's the only reason I have found out things ahead of time, I promised to not tell. But it's not as much fun if you can't tell what's seen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted July 5, 2018 Moderators Share Posted July 5, 2018 20 minutes ago, Panelhead said: There is a possible improvement using biwired. Any feedback from the woofer back emf is separated from the horns when biwired. Both sets of cables connect right to the amp This has my problem with bi wiring, not just the EMF part but everything connected to the same point. I bi wire but it's biamped and active also, this even I can my head around much easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 It effects the impedance of the speaker, and so may change its frequency response (slightly). Sometimes it’s audible, sometimes it isn’t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 2 hours ago, Deang said: It effects the impedance of the speaker, and so may change its frequency response (slightly). Sometimes it’s audible, sometimes it isn’t. IMHO, bi-wiring from the same amp is ridiculous. What you are doing, basically, is using the amp outputs as though you are running two pairs of speakers, which lowers the impedance, and ALSO makes the amplifier section work harder, generating more heat, and heat is the enemy of electronic components. You MAY WELL "HEAR" a "difference", but that "difference" is highly likely just the difference in impedance caused by the bi-amping from two sets of speaker outputs on the same amp. EVERYBODY judges the sound of the music which they hear based upon pre-conceived notions...it is human nature. Not only that, but, for instance, have you ever heard a song that you loved when you were much younger, but the "QUALITY" speakers you heard it through more recently had you dumbfounded just because it didn't sound as good as you remembered it to sound? Think about that for a minute or two...think about the listening environment conditions in which that you first started to love the song so many years ago....was it being played on the radio??...in your car??...with the windows rolled down and traveling 60 mph?...through those crappy rear deck speakers supplied by the car maker??...etc. etc., etc. You have highly-likely been fooled by your own memories of ending up loving a particular song under horrid listening environment conditions....and now you are listening to it through expensive highly-efficient fully-horn-loaded ACCURATE sound reproducers and you hear everything BAD in the recording of the song that the crappy listening environment way back in the past HID from your ears...it is what it is. Everybody's ears are different, and everybody's pre-conceived notions of "good sound" are ALSO different. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnJ Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 40 minutes ago, HDBRbuilder said: EVERYBODY judges the sound of the music which they hear based upon pre-conceived notions...it is human nature. Like and have learned from you here the past year and a half. You might have made my first Klipsch - H2s from 1990! But seriously that went "in one ear and out the other". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 51 minutes ago, HDBRbuilder said: What you are doing, basically, is using the amp outputs as though you are running two pairs of speakers, which lowers the impedance, Not really ... https://www.audioholics.com/audio-video-cables/bi-wiring-from-amplifier-to-loudspeaker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 59 minutes ago, HDBRbuilder said: Not only that, but, for instance, have you ever heard a song that you loved when you were much younger, but the "QUALITY" speakers you heard it through more recently had you dumbfounded just because it didn't sound as good as you remembered it to sound? Stuff in the past sounded better, because it was better. Recordings were better, and run of the mill consumer stereo amplifiers were of better quality than the amplifier sections of most modern day AVRs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 1 hour ago, Deang said: Stuff in the past sounded better, because it was better. Recordings were better, and run of the mill consumer stereo amplifiers were of better quality than the amplifier sections of most modern day AVRs. You missed the entire point.... the source material is exactly the same, but the difference is in the equipment and the listening environment in which you first fell in love with the song. I seem to remember SOMEBODY calling Heritage speakers "ear-bleeders" compared to RF-7's many years back, too...LOL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 Never mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtr20 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 From my opinion, bi-wire would probably result in the same sound using similar quality materials. On speakers that can be bi-wired, they come from the factory with brass or copper (usually) jumpers. If the jumpers were very low quality and you replaced them with high quality speaker wire for a bi-wired setup, I could see an improvement. In the end, the crossover is still doing all of the work, going through the same filters. Biamping is a different story. I've never taken the time to do this experiment myself, this is just from what I understand in this hobby. I'm not an engineer and I don't play one on TV either 😁. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 Never mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 (edited) 11 hours ago, HDBRbuilder said: IMHO, EVERYBODY judges the sound of the music which they hear based upon pre-conceived notions...it is human nature. I can not really agree with this blanket statement... double blind testing doesn't measure difference in quality of an item, it tests whether a testee has the ability to distinguish if there is a difference which may include their own personal preferences, that's not the same thing as measuring if one thing is superior to another. You need to cobble together several thousand "results" before you even begin to generate a reliable "Mean" or "trend line". How can someone with absolutely no knowledge of the audio industry and it's nuances have a pre conceived notion, idea or bias? Edited July 6, 2018 by Schu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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