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wvu80

Need troubleshooting help, AVR shuts down

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I bought a Denon 5.1 AVR a few years ago for my adult son Scott from A4less.  It was a lower level $200-300 AVR with maybe 80 watts but the SQ was great, it just lacked features which he didn't need.  It now seems to be going into thermal shutdown, a change from the way its run the last few years.

 

He runs a full 5.1 and has always left the AVR running.  He has three MTM Madisound kits across the front, a pair of Bose 301's for surrounds.  He had a basic Dayton Audio Sub 12 until a couple of months ago until the amp died.  Now he runs my old Klipsch RW-12d which is twice the sub the old one was.

 

Scott said he has always been able to run music loud but now when he runs it less loud it shuts off.  He can turn the Denon on and back on and it comes back in full sound.

 

  • What do you think the problem might be?
  • How do you suggest he trouble shoot the problem?  I live 8 hours away.

 

 

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Are the impedance of the speakers compatible with the unit?  Do they have very low dips in impedance for certain frequencies?  Does the amp get very hot?   Does it play for awhole before it shuts down?   More info needed.  

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If he has other speakers to swap in perhaps and see if the problem can be duplicated. Or, put a fan on it and sees if it stays on which would clearly point in the thermal direction to me.  

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Typically impedance though your comment "less loud" has me wondering.  The impedance problem usually shows up the more loud it is played.  Still could be impedance (the mtm's are likely a tough load due to dual woofers) though sounds like the receiver has a problem or operating on the edge.

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A very remote possibility is a lightning hit nearby, not direct. With my old Denon it cut off the speakers completely and the AVR was cooked.

JJK

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If he rearranged some things it could be something as simple as having a speaker wire that is loose and touching. That is the most common reason an AVR shuts off. 

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9 hours ago, wvu80 said:

Scott said he has always been able to run music loud but now when he runs it less loud it shuts off.  He can turn the Denon on and back on and it comes back in full sound.

 

  • What do you think the problem might be?
  • How do you suggest he trouble shoot the problem?  I live 8 hours away.

 

 

The amp still plays at the loudest volume levels he typically listens at?

But now shuts down on thermal overload at lesser levels and still plays at max?

A damaged speaker component or crossover will change the impedance to the amp and cause it to be driven into thermal overload.

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3 hours ago, Davis said:

But now shuts down on thermal overload at lesser levels and still plays at max?

No, I don't think it plays at max.  It never gets there.

 

For instance, in the past it would play (for instance)  at 85 db with no problem.  Now at 80 db it shuts down, but the AVR recovers after being turned Off and then back On.

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12 hours ago, Westcoastdrums said:

If he has other speakers to swap in perhaps and see if the problem can be duplicated. Or, put a fan on it and sees if it stays on which would clearly point in the thermal direction to me.  

He has no other speakers and no fan he could use as a case fan.

 

Should he turn off some speakers, surrounds for instance to see if that changes anything?  I think he has banana plugs everywhere except at the surround speaker terminals, which is bare wire, the old spring loaded terminals.

 

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12 hours ago, Westcoastdrums said:

Are the impedance of the speakers compatible with the unit?  Do they have very low dips in impedance for certain frequencies?  Does the amp get very hot?   Does it play for awhile before it shuts down?   More info needed.  

All speakers are 8 Ohm.  I don't think he has low dips in impedance, I think the speakers shut down while playing Netflix. I'll have to ask.

 

I also don't know about the hot amp.  I'll ask.

 

Good question on how long it plays before thermal shutdown, I'll ask.

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He could try that and if it stayed on, thermal would again be my go to.   But he is gokgn to want to run everything at once in the end.... Since it technically functions and prices are down.... Might make sense to sell it and upgrade to something of similar price point.... If the levels of the drivers arent different, I wouldn't suspect driver damage....  Maybe it was run too hard at some point and the caps sustained damage perhaps?  Not entirely sure.   

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3 hours ago, Zen Traveler said:

If he rearranged some things it could be something as simple as having a speaker wire that is loose and touching. That is the most common reason an AVR shuts off. 

I was thinking the same thing.  I thought maybe there was a whisker from a bare wire touching somewhere.

 

I think I'll have him physically disconnect the surround Bose 301's and see if that makes any difference.  That's where there is bare wire connected, although those had been working for a year without a problem.  Still, it's a good place to start.

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12 minutes ago, Westcoastdrums said:

Maybe it was run too hard at some point and the caps sustained damage perhaps?  Not entirely sure.   

That's a possibility.  It was an inexpensive A4L Denon refurb so maybe it's just not going to last forever.

 

What I don't understand is after it has a thermal shutdown, it can recover.  I would think if something was seriously overheating it would shutdown and stay dead.

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No, it will automatically reset and  immediately come back on after a thermal shutdown.

If a bare wire touches something then a direct short will occur and either blow a fuse or trip a internal circuit breaker which may or may not reset depending on type.

I had this same problem with one of my older Denon AVR and it was a speaker.

Start with a single pair of speakers and substitute and then add the other pairs in a sequence to eliminate that factor.

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On 7/11/2018 at 7:18 AM, Zen Traveler said:

If he rearranged some things it could be something as simple as having a speaker wire that is loose and touching. That is the most common reason an AVR shuts off. 

I had a Denon that this would happen and shut off.  A very tiny wire would be touching the wire next to.  Almost could not see the wire.  

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Wire whisker.  Ask him if he has checked for shorts.

 

Ask him if he had moved anything just before the problem started. 

 

He isn't trying to run extra speakers in parallel, is he?

 

Write, call or email Denon.    My guess is they will be no help, but I could be wrong.

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On ‎7‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 12:26 AM, jbsl said:
On ‎7‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 7:18 AM, Zen Traveler said:

If he rearranged some things it could be something as simple as having a speaker wire that is loose and touching. That is the most common reason an AVR shuts off. 

I had a Denon that this would happen and shut off.  A very tiny wire would be touching the wire next to.  Almost could not see the wire.  

I bet we are correct. :) 

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