WMcD Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karlson3 Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 what does the change from AA to AK2 lowpass accomplish subjectively and in the driver blend? - a rough sim says Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rplace Posted July 18, 2018 Author Share Posted July 18, 2018 14 hours ago, Deang said: I built those to be run WITH the low pass components in the door. So, either a misunderstanding, or I sent you the wrong pair. Thanks for clearing that up Dean. I knew/know so little about the inner workings of a khorn I surely would not have removed those parts from the bass bin without someone instructing me to do so. One a totally different front. If the khorn bass bin CAN do 400 and below and my HF horn/driver can go down to 150-170 where is a good place to start playing around? Should the Khorn bass bin be given everything below 400 and the upper horn/driver given say 350 and above or would I anticipate better bass if the khorn bass bin did not have to do all the way up to 400? What if the bass bin got say 20hz to 250 or 300Hz only? Pros and Cons? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornukopia Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 On 7/18/2018 at 6:34 AM, rplace said: If the khorn bass bin CAN do 400 and below and my HF horn/driver can go down to 150-170 where is a good place to start playing around? The factory crossover spec for woofer to mid-range on the Klipschorn is 450 Hz. That should be a good number to start with. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rplace Posted July 19, 2018 Author Share Posted July 19, 2018 24 minutes ago, Khornukopia said: The factory crossover spec for woofer to mid-range on the Klipschorn is 450 Hz. That should be a good number to start with. I've been trying various configurations lately but I don't have my active crossover yet. I do have a crown 1002 that has some DSP in it. So I'm feeding my 8" full range drivers/horns a full signal from either a 3.5 watt SET amps or 60 watt VRD tube amps. To my ears (still trying to figure out REW) the crown giving my khorn bass bins 200 to 265 range sounds better than anything in the 300-400 range. Curious to see if when I can apply a high pass filter to the 8" drivers, if perhaps cutting them off around 300 and giving the Khorns a bit more low end will help? I'm super new to this so don't really know, but in my mind, I'm thinking if I give the khorns up to 400-450 and the Oris 150 are doing 150-170 that is a lot of overlap. However I don't even know if that overlap is a bad thing. Thoughts? I'm surprised how much more bass I get from the 3.5 SET amps over the bigger 60 watts. While I did not notice it on my standard Khorns with passive XOs I can easily tell with these big horns that the VRDS like a preamp between them while the SET amps seem to do better without the preamp. So many variables. The Crown has its own gain control so when switching between SET and Ultra Linear/Triode I can adjust the bass. Limited time to play, but with the standard khorn set up the Ultra Linear sounded better with the big Oris horns I think Triode might win out. Here are a couple of shots so we have something to look at not just text on a page. One is from the back of the room the other, closer up is from my listening position. These things image like crazy. Nice to be able to toe the horns in/out compared to the HF section of the Khorn. I know that is a nice feature of the Jubes as well. I'd really like to hear that big horn along with these Oris. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 @rplace so did you verify that the woofer filter inside the bass bin is still intact? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 On 7/17/2018 at 10:19 PM, karlson3 said: what does the change from AA to AK2 lowpass accomplish subjectively and in the driver blend? - a rough sim says Curious here. And ignorant. What do the red as opposed to the grey curves represent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rplace Posted July 19, 2018 Author Share Posted July 19, 2018 40 minutes ago, babadono said: @rplace so did you verify that the woofer filter inside the bass bin is still intact? For sure it is not. A page or so back you can see pictures where three things were removed from both bass bins. Seeing the earlier picture of an AK2 intact jogged my memory about me connecting that yellow wire after removal. 27 minutes ago, babadono said: Curious here. And ignorant. What do the red as opposed to the grey curves represent? Also curious about that and what the meaning is between what is connected between blue lines. dB >> Impedance on both sets. Good, bad, just different? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 47 minutes ago, rplace said: For sure it is not. So your woofers have been running full range for however long its been since you removed said parts. Hmmmmm.... I'm no expert by any means but this can't be a good thing. Otherwise PWK would have left the inductor out(they cost money). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rplace Posted July 19, 2018 Author Share Posted July 19, 2018 7 minutes ago, babadono said: So your woofers have been running full range for however long its been since you removed said parts. Hmmmmm.... I'm no expert by any means but this can't be a good thing. Otherwise PWK would have left the inductor out(they cost money). Go back a page and see what Dean had to say about that and PWK. At least we put to bed what I was thinking originally. Do you see my initial confusion? All this XO talk and needing the right stuff to the right place and I was left scratching my head thinking I'm pretty sure that is exactly what I don't have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 OK I reread Dean's post several times and its sinking in. I believe ALK always says you cannot take the inductance of the woofer's voice coil out of the equation either. So between the horn itself and the inductance of the woofer there is a "nautral" for lack of a better term low pass filter in the woofer circuit already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karlson3 Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 the grey line = response without any crossover and the blue line shows the corresponding calculated input impedance. Networks can be designed to "boost" a certain area by pulling the impedance down to draw more current from ~ constant voltage solid state amplifiers. Such tricks are probably lost with tube power amps with higher output Z, having very little or no negative feedback. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 On 7/19/2018 at 3:51 PM, babadono said: OK I reread Dean's post several times and its sinking in. I believe ALK always says you cannot take the inductance of the woofer's voice coil out of the equation either. So between the horn itself and the inductance of the woofer there is a "nautral" for lack of a better term low pass filter in the woofer circuit already. Forget about the Inductance of the VC. http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/213445-crossover-calculation.html Instead, just look at the raw response curve of a Klipschorn bass bin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 I think what happened here is that you got the idea to pull those components based on what someone else mistakenly told you - there’s no way I would have suggested that based on the build you have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rplace Posted July 23, 2018 Author Share Posted July 23, 2018 On 7/22/2018 at 1:29 PM, Deang said: I think what happened here is that you got the idea to pull those components based on what someone else mistakenly told you - there’s no way I would have suggested that based on the build you have. Not sure who I would have gotten that idea from. It's been a while and I'm not getting any younger, memories can fade but I knew/know nothing about the inner workings of a khorn. I can't fathom I'd do anything different than what you told me to do. I do know this for a fact, I did not remove the bass bin components at a later time. Since the day I installed the XOs till about 2 months ago they have never been out of their corners, touched or modified beyond lifting off the top to switch the autoformer taps. I never screwed the tops back on for that very reason. I can fiddle with the taps without removing them from the corners. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron167 Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 Not sure who I would have gotten that idea from. It's been a while and I'm not getting any younger, memories can fade but I knew/know nothing about the inner workings of a khorn. I can't phantom I'd do anything different than what you told me to do. I do know this for a fact, I did not remove the bass bin components at a later time. Since the day I installed the XOs till about 2 months ago they have never been out of their corners, touched or modified beyond lifting off the top to switch the autoformer taps. I never screwed the tops back on for that very reason. I can fiddle with the taps without removing them from the corners.I'm with you here. Only do what I'm told (when i know my limitations and someone else is being paid to be the expert). Where does Deang get his crossover schematics? Is this another ALK copycat or original? If original, where's the science? Links? Thanks!Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rplace Posted July 30, 2018 Author Share Posted July 30, 2018 Just to be clear the point of my asking my original question was to make sure I was understanding things correctly as I move forward with a totally different set of speakers and an active crossover set up. It was in no way intended to question the passive crossover for my khorns, their construction or the builder. I've been more than happy with the performance of my khorns for many, many years. That said, I don't see why all the hate for the AK2. Maybe not perfect and probably better out there, but not "bad" by any means. My ears, my equipment, my room....YMMV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimbo Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 I think that traffic court messed with your head...... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rplace Posted July 30, 2018 Author Share Posted July 30, 2018 15 minutes ago, jimjimbo said: I think that traffic court messed with your head...... In my defense, your honor, the AK2s were many years ago. I'm going to have to have to take the D.C. way out and say I don't recall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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