New Owner of La Scala IIs - Couple of Q's for Other Owners?

[oldtimer]

Right over everyone's heads except for Mallette and I.  Sorry rplace but your head is the one that did not need to duck.

[Travis In Austin]

3 hours ago, JFHSQT said:

Well I must have uploaded my daily quota of MBs so I can't upload any more pics.

 

But I have had another hour and a half of critical listening and I can say, so far that they are very amazing speakers and different than anything else I've ever heard before. It's hard to describe, but the detail and dimension of every note is pretty flawless. I've always been attracted to the Heritage line for the "live music" feel but this is the first I can say I've heard speakers that actually present a live soundstage in every way, and not just a "sounds like" live experience. 

 

They are also quite different from the Heresy III and Forte IIIs I have owned previously (and sacrificed to own these). One example of something that always nagged me on those speakers was that there always seemed to be a forward glare to certain mids that didn't sound natural. Listening to the opening of "The Working Hour" by Tears for Fears, the saxophone always seemed a little harsh and grainy. 

 

Not so listening to these LSIIs... the sax is completely natural and laid back - you could still hear the reed in the instrument, but the blare and horniness of that track has just disappeared. 

 

Something else I realized was that I figured I'd work my way through my Tidal playlist and listen to 30% of every song like I always do, and skip to the next track. Not so with the LSIIs. I discovered I was listening to the entire tracks to hear how each song unfolded, tons of detail... highs seem to hang in the air. 

 

Another example, "Spain," from Chick Corea Trio's Trilogy, when the percussion instruments kick in around the 2 minute mark, the chimes and cymbals just seemed to come from nowhere and hang in the room. Pretty darn great.

 

Anyway, I haven't even listened to the Anthem yet or any home theater content. Waiting until the weekend when I can run ARC without interruption and get things dialed in further. 

 

Still very interested in hearing other owners' impressions as well.

 

I too found them to be a little short for the type of music I listen to as well, but with the right subwoofer, they sound amazing.  

 

I eventually had a room with two perfect corners and went with Khorns.  

 

Like Dave @Mallette was saying above, once you have listened to all of that information down there, with low distortion horn-loaded bass, there is really is no going back.

 

There is really a lot of bass below 50 just in rock music if you want to be aware of the bass lines and really have the rhythm section where it is supposed to be in the mix.

 

Four string basses are in Blue text below.

 

	B String	E String	A String	D String	G String	C String
Open	B - 30.8hz	E - 41.2hz	A - 55.0hz	D - 73.2hz	G - 98.0hz	C - 130.8hz
1st Fret	C - 32.7hz	F - 43.7hz	A#- 58.3hz	D#- 77.8hz	G#- 103.8hz	C#- 138.6hz
2nd Fret	C#- 34.6hz	F#- 46.2hz	B - 61.7hz	E - 82.4hz	A - 110hz	D - 146.8hz
3rd Fret	D - 36.7hz	G - 49.0hz	C - 65.4hz	F - 87.3hz	A#- 116.5hz	D# - 155.6hz
4th Fret	D#- 38.9hz	G#-51.9hz	C#- 69.3hz	F#- 92.5hz	B - 123.5hz	E - 164.8hz

Remember that this table only gives you the fundamental frequency, which is the predominate frequency for the note.  In reality, there are almost always harmonics which always accompany the note and give color and texture to the sound. "

 

Those are incredibly great looking speakers.

 

I may have to hunt down the threads with the guys who are running LS for home theater with Subs, they discuss using them both in 2 way and HT.

 

Travis 

 

 

 

 

[Shakeydeal]

OP, where in western va. If I may ask?

 

 

 

[Guest wdecho]

Worth a try reversing the wires from amplifier on one speaker. If wired right from factory the bass should decrease if not, wired wrong somewhere in speaker. Mistakes do happen, human error. If everything is correct inside speaker it is doing all it is supposed to do as far as lows and the 53db figure is usually rated at 3db down and drops pretty fast from there. What bass it does produce sparkles and shines like the mids and highs, something no other speaker other than horn loaded ones can do. If one is a low bass lover the problem is easily solved with a sub worthy of the LaScala speakers. Unless things have changed the LaScala has the same horns and drivers as the K-horn. A much larger mid horn than any of the previous speakers you have owned. With horns, in general, bigger is better. When I bought my LaScala's in '85 or so they were half the price of the K-horn. Sacrificing a octave or so on the bottom end was no sacrifice for me living on a budget with wife and kids. Another factor the media available at the time, LP's, were not known for much bass below 50 hz anyways. The lows take up too much space on a LP. Fantastic speakers even at retail and they should hold their value for many decades. Mine are selling used on the market roughly for the price I paid in '85. Not many other brands can say that. 

[JFHSQT]

3 hours ago, dwilawyer said:

 

 

Those are incredibly great looking speakers.

 

I may have to hunt down the threads with the guys who are running LS for home theater with Subs, they discuss using them both in 2 way and HT.

 

Travis 

 

 

 

 

 

Believe it or not, my wife thinks they look great too, which is a huge relief because I am not the "consult with the spouse" type of guy, and I had some real worries that I had gone too far this time. After I played Prince's "Sometimes It Snows in April" for her last night she loves them almost as much as I do.

[JFHSQT]

2 hours ago, Shakeydeal said:

OP, where in western va. If I may ask?

 

 

 

Hey man - it's me in Roanoke... the guy who missed your Forte IIIs by that much! Turns out it all worked out for the best anyway. We should connect some time!

[JFHSQT]

1 hour ago, wdecho said:

Worth a try reversing the wires from amplifier on one speaker. If wired right from factory the bass should decrease if not, wired wrong somewhere in speaker. Mistakes do happen, human error. If everything is correct inside speaker it is doing all it is supposed to do as far as lows and the 53db figure is usually rated at 3db down and drops pretty fast from there. What bass it does produce sparkles and shines like the mids and highs, something no other speaker other than horn loaded ones can do. If one is a low bass lover the problem is easily solved with a sub worthy of the LaScala speakers. Unless things have changed the LaScala has the same horns and drivers as the K-horn. A much larger mid horn than any of the previous speakers you have owned. With horns, in general, bigger is better. When I bought my LaScala's in '85 or so they were half the price of the K-horn. Sacrificing a octave or so on the bottom end was no sacrifice for me living on a budget with wife and kids. Another factor the media available at the time, LP's, were not known for much bass below 50 hz anyways. The lows take up too much space on a LP. Fantastic speakers even at retail and they should hold their value for many decades. Mine are selling used on the market roughly for the price I paid in '85. Not many other brands can say that. 

 

I didn't mention it in my final review post, and I'm embarrassed to admit, but when I set them up initially they were out of phase and the L/R were also reversed. Definitely explained my initial lack of bass and kind of bewilderment as to the sound. Funny, I discovered this while listening to Steven Wilson's remix of Tears for Fears' "Shout," which was the first time the pan on the opening chimes were actually mixed properly - the original release had the stereo channels reversed, and the chimes went from left to right. Wilson consulted with Chris Hughes and Roland Orzabal and discovered the 1985 release had reversed the stereo channels. 

 

Sure enough when I played it, I noticed my chimes went from left to right and I smacked myself in the head and brought out my AXIS calibration DVD to be sure. Out of phase and channels reversed. So things improved dramatically after that. 

 

I do have my SVS SB2000 connected now through the Anthem, and I'm listening to the HDMI output of the Oppo 205 to get the bass into the subwoofer while using my amp switcher to use the Oppo analog outs to the vintage Luxman CL-40, so I'm able to get sub bass and analog L/R, and it does sound amazing.

Edited July 20, 2018 by JFHSQT
clarity

[Shakeydeal]

Oh yeah. Cool. So you decided to go up. Good for you.  Yeah, we definitely need to get together.

 

I've not heard the IIs, but have heard the original Lascalas. Unless the IIs are game changers in the bass, I don't think you will ever come close to what you had with the Forte IIIs.  But of course, everything else should be better. It sounds as if a good subwoofer is in your future.

 

Shakey

[pbphoto]

7 hours ago, JFHSQT said:

 

 

Still very interested in hearing other owners' impressions as well.

 

I own both the H3 and LS2 and use both with subs.  The H3 requires less help from the sub then the LS2.  The H3 is awesome - maybe 75% of an LS2.  My impressions match yours.  The LS2 is simply bigger, smoother, more dynamic, and more detailed than the H3.  The LS2's midrange is voiced differently than the H3, being less in-your-face, and that accounts for some of the smoothness.  Enjoy.  PM me or start a separate thread on your experience with the Anthem MRX-720 once you get it up and running.

[JFHSQT]

4 minutes ago, Shakeydeal said:

Oh yeah. Cool. So you decided to go up. Good for you.  Yeah, we definitely need to get together.

 

I've not heard the IIs, but have heard the original Lascalas. Unless the IIs are game changers in the bass, I don't think you will ever come close to what you had with the Forte IIIs.  But of course, everything else should be better. It sounds as if a good subwoofer is in your future.

 

Shakey

 

Yes, definitely not the same in the bass dept, but I after 3 weeks I was still really not thrilled with the FIIIs, particularly with the grain and glare in the mids. Audiotronics had just gotten in these LSIIs on Tuesday, and they really have always been my end-game speaker... so after hearing them I had to make a deal. They gave me full refund on the FIIIs and took my Heresy IIIs and I ended up paying a little less than half of the LSIIs in cash. Not a deal to write home about, but if things hold up at least my speaker buying days are done.

[Shakeydeal]

Ahh, so those distressed oak Fortes are back at Audiotronics? I'm sure they will still ask full price for them. I should call up there and act like an interested buyer...🙂

 

Good luck with the new speakers. I'm sure that when you get everything dialed in you will love them. The midrange on the original lascalas was one of the best I have ever heard. My buddy didn't want to hassle with a sub, so he eventually sold them.

 

Shakey

[Guest wdecho]

52 minutes ago, JFHSQT said:

 

 at least my speaker buying days are done.

My primary speaker buying days ended over 30 years ago when I bought LaScala's. Of late I have been playing with some full range drivers in an open baffle setup. Pretty much the craze among many audiophiles of late. Decent sounding using some Fostex speakers but as my son commented when doing an A/B comparison against LaScala, Dad the horns sound much more clearer and cleaner with more dynamics. You are not going to beat horns in that department. The less a driver has to move, being horn loaded, the less distortion it is going to produce. Even the big 15" woofer in K-horns and LaScala's move only mm's to produce the bass. Someone on this forum can fill in the exact figure I am sure. The pride of the illustrious career of PWK was the K-horn bass unit. The LaScala was it's child. 

[Guest wdecho]

Another reason for my decision for my buying LaScala's over K-horn was my listening room. At the time there were no closed back K-horns and they needed to be positioned in corners and being that the drivers would cross each other at an extreme angle in a small room they were best for large rooms and it was suggested that a Belle or LaScala be used as a center channel by Klipsch. Big speakers for big rooms. In such an environment they sound fantastic but not everyone was fortunate enough to have the accommodations for them.  

[Shakeydeal]

4 minutes ago, wdecho said:

My primary speaker buying days ended over 30 years ago when I bought LaScala's. Of late I have been playing with some full range drivers in an open baffle setup. Pretty much the craze among many audiophiles of late. Decent sounding using some Fostex speakers but as my son commented when doing an A/B comparison against LaScala, Dad the horns sound much more clearer and cleaner with more dynamics. You are not going to beat horns in that department. The less a driver has to move, being horn loaded, the less distortion it is going to produce. Even the big 15" woofer in K-horns and LaScala's move only mm's to produce the bass. Someone on this forum can fill in the exact figure I am sure. The pride of the illustrious career of PWK was the K-horn bass unit. The LaScala was it's child. 

 

 

I  had a pair of Danny Ritchies Super V open baffle speakers when I got back into horns earlier this year. 94 db efficient with a coaxial driver mated to dual 12" OB subs. This was a very good sounding speaker, but I didn't miss it at all compared to a good horn loaded design. My Forte IIIs were better in most ways and my klipschorns are better in every imaginable way.

 

The open baffle thing is very good, however. And I see why people that are used to conventional "cones in a box" speakers are drawn to them.

 

Shakey

[Guest wdecho]

Just now, Shakeydeal said:

 

 

I  had a pair of Danny Ritchies Super V open baffle speakers when I got back into horns earlier this year. 94 db efficient with a coaxial driver mated to dual 12" OB subs. This was a very good sounding speaker, but I didn't miss it at all compared to a good horn loaded design. My Forte IIIs were better in most ways and my klipschorns are better in every imaginable way.

 

The open baffle thing is very good, however. And I see why people that are used to conventional "cones in a box" speakers are drawn to them.

 

Shakey

The Fostex are very decent well rated speakers and the ones I bought have a 94 db rating. Very large soundstage, the best I have heard in a long time in an open baffle setup. I would be happy with them if I had never heard proper horns and the ability to A/B them. Some on this forum other than myself have been playing with them as well. I will probably not use them that much if at all though. Just something to play with and experience what the discussion of them is all about. I bought the Fostex FE166En for it's ability to be used in open baffle but others have used them in a back loaded horn configuration and praised their sound, that is for a conventional cone speaker. https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/full-range-speaker-kits/fostex-bk-16-folded-horn-kit-pair/

 

Now I am straying from the original posters topic. Forgive me. Love my LaScala's, not going to be replaced. 

[billybob]

Congrats on a great purchase! The bass has been described as quick and punch, tight...Nice system with ability to have options in the bass department.

Welcome!

germaine

[JFHSQT]

I am curious if setting any tube amps on top of the LSIIs could result in distortion from microphonics, etc.

 

I didn't hear any issues last night, but I was listening at probably 70dB, not much to shake at that level. The one sacrifice I have to make with these speakers is room, so I lost my component cabinet and have to use the LSIIs as end tables for my tube gear. 

[MEH Synergy]

I doubt it, but you could also use Sorbothane  isolation feet to be sure.  

[Shakeydeal]

Personally, I wouldn't put any electronics on top of speakers, especially tube gear. But I am a big believer in footers and devices to eliminate vibrations in gear. I'm sure I'll get taken to task for that, but a lot of those products do work.

 

Shakey

[Guest wdecho]

It depends on the tubes used and their sensitivity to vibrations. Not something I would do or recommend.