New Owner of La Scala IIs - Couple of Q's for Other Owners?

[JFHSQT]

46 minutes ago, Marvel said:

Congrats on the LSII purchase! I loved my '89 LS, but sold them for financial reasons. I know they are a bit weak in the bass, but loved the presentation they made. Even when listening to Bela Fleck and the Flecktones... switching to Sibelius, Elgar was super.

 

I am sure the new ones are even better.

 

Bruce

 

Thanks, I've spent quite a bit of time with them over the past 5 days and they just keep sounding better and better. The way they handle the dynamics of piano, bass (guitar/standup) and drums is incredible. And the natural smoothness of reed instruments and pop vocals. Really stunning. Since the fam was out of town over the weekend I didn't get much sleep staying up and listening to "just one more song..." 

 

Regarding the bass, I did pickup a 115SW to support the SVS SB-2000 in the room. Calibrated levels and phase and then EQ'd with ARC and they are sounding very even and blend incredibly well with the La Scala IIs. Also picked up an RP-450C to replace the little RP-250C I had. It does a better job and sounds so much better than the 250C, although I still don't believe it's an ideal match for the La Scalas (even with ARC calibration). 

 

I guess it's what I will stick with until I get a dedicated room big enough to use a Heresy III as a center. 

 

[wstrickland1]

On 7/19/2018 at 11:40 PM, rplace said:

Fire up Grant Green's Idle Moments. A match made in heaven for big Klipsch

I couldn't agree more. It has it all.

[JohnA]

Or Dan Landrum's "Questions In The Calm".  Hammered dulcimer, perhaps outside. 

[JohnKuthe]

On 7/24/2018 at 11:24 AM, Marvel said:

Congrats on the LSII purchase! I loved my '89 LS, but sold them for financial reasons. I know they are a bit weak in the bass, but loved the presentation they made. Even when listening to Bela Fleck and the Flecktones... switching to Sibelius, Elgar was super.

 

I am sure the new ones are even better.

 

Bruce

Yep. I fell into buying a pair of 1977 La Scalas when I found a pair for sale here in STL last year for $3000 here IN STL! Sweet!! :-)

I heard about Klipsch speakers back IN 1977ish when I was still in High School and too poor to afford any or too many good audio equipment purchase, but I found most/many high quality audio equipment makers were very willing and able to send me all kinds of sales and technical data on their products, so I learned quite a bit about high end home audio equipment, and yes Klipsch is and always was LEGENDARY for Paul Klipsch's fantastic contributions to the home and professional audio equipment designers and makers.

And in my EXPERIENCE with my La Scalas I'd have to say it's not so much the La Scalas are weak with their bass, but that the horn midrange is so powerfully efficient and exceptional strong that they overshadow the bass almost always. 

John Kuthe...

[Marvel]

I actually cut the mids down on mine by 2-3 db, which then gave a better balance. I had built the DHA2 crossover designed by John Albright. I use low powered amps (2a3), and the crossove is a constant impedance and works very well with them.

 

Bruce

[JFHSQT]

7 hours ago, Marvel said:

I actually cut the mids down on mine by 2-3 db, which then gave a better balance. I had built the DHA2 crossover designed by John Albright. I use low powered amps (2a3), and the crossove is a constant impedance and works very well with them.

 

Bruce

 

I can run mine either through my Luxman tube pre & PrimaLuna tube amp or my Anthem which has really good room correction/EQ with their ARC software. For movies I listen to the ARC/Anthem rig all day long but on music the tube rig is absolutely stunning. I've got the RP-115SW crossover set up at 70Hz for music out of the Anthem (playing simultaneously with the tubes playing through the La Scalas) and the La Scalas are playing all the way down to their 52Hz bottom along with the sub. The blend is great and the sub is also EQ'd with ARC, so the bass is even and powerful. 

[JohnKuthe]

On 7/19/2018 at 9:56 PM, Mallette said:

They are there, but they never sound as good as Klipsch and cost a lot more, as they violate his basic principles which are physics. The either have greater cone excursion, and therefore distortion, or greater size and cost. As PWK said "I'll build a better speaker when they change the laws of physics." Don't hold your breath...

 

Dave

Yeah, physics can be a *****! 😉

When I was in Computer Engineering school I saw a sig file on an email once that was perfect!

"If it was not for physics and law enforcement, I'd be unstoppable!"

John Kuthe...

[Travis In Austin]

On 7/24/2018 at 12:16 PM, JFHSQT said:

I guess it's what I will stick with until I get a dedicated room big enough to use a Heresy III as a center. 

Research the Klipsch Academy center speaker here on the forum.

 

Travis

[Panelhead]

  I do not have enough hours on my LS ii yet, maybe 20 hrs total. And half at low volume. The mids seem hot to my ears. Overload on recordings is painful. Too much of what I like must be in the red at times.

  An adjustable autoformer might be what i THINK is needed. Maybe just more hours. The layering, separation, and harmonics are spooky. End game.

[ClaudeJ1]

On 7/24/2018 at 1:16 PM, JFHSQT said:

 

Thanks, I've spent quite a bit of time with them over the past 5 days and they just keep sounding better and better. The way they handle the dynamics of piano, bass (guitar/standup) and drums is incredible. And the natural smoothness of reed instruments and pop vocals. Really stunning. Since the fam was out of town over the weekend I didn't get much sleep staying up and listening to "just one more song..." 

 

Regarding the bass, I did pickup a 115SW to support the SVS SB-2000 in the room. Calibrated levels and phase and then EQ'd with ARC and they are sounding very even and blend incredibly well with the La Scala IIs. Also picked up an RP-450C to replace the little RP-250C I had. It does a better job and sounds so much better than the 250C, although I still don't believe it's an ideal match for the La Scalas (even with ARC calibration). 

 

I guess it's what I will stick with until I get a dedicated room big enough to use a Heresy III as a center. 

 

Having owned way too many big Klipsch speakers over the years, including many LaScalas, Khorns, MWM, Jubes, etc. I prefer the sound of LaScalas and subs over just Khorns, or even Khorns with subs (Unless you do active Xover and time align the Khorns). You have a great combination there, and should not be wanting for anything except how to OPTIMIZE the setting for your room and taste buds!!

 

[JFHSQT]

17 hours ago, dwilawyer said:

Research the Klipsch Academy center speaker here on the forum.

 

Travis

I have seen and heard about the Academy speaker since I got my first Heritage speakers a couple years ago (HIIIs), but they are always hard to find, and I feel like I may have placement issues with the speaker profile. I will say after working with the 450C over the past week and bumping levels in the La Scalas up a bit after ARC calibration, it is a pretty seamless front soundstage. Not as seamless as when I had a Monitor Audio Silver 300 setup across the front soundstage, but that L/C/R combo was built for each other. I feel pretty happy with the 450C at this point and hope my upgrade-itis is finally in remission!

[JFHSQT]

11 hours ago, Panelhead said:

  I do not have enough hours on my LS ii yet, maybe 20 hrs total. And half at low volume. The mids seem hot to my ears. Overload on recordings is painful. Too much of what I like must in the red at times.

  An adjustable autoformer might be what i THINK is needed. Maybe just more hours. The layering, separation, and harmonics are spooky. End game.

What is your signal path from your source (DAC/preamp/amp, etc)? Could it be too much gain structure somewhere in the signal path? 

 

I will say that my experience with the LSIIs so far is a big improvement over my biggest gripe with the Heresy IIIs and Forte IIIs I previously owned, which is that the mids get a bit strident and grainy on dirtier mixes. I have been pleasantly surprised with the performance of the La Scalas on specific recordings that I didn't like listening to on the other 2 lines of speakers. An example is Maroon 5's "She Will Be Loved," not an exceptionally well mixed recording, but still pretty clean... but on the the HIIIs and FIIIs, once the distorted guitar, bass, and full drum kit kicked in around the 2nd chorus, it got very strident and sloppy in the mids. Now listening to the track on the La Scala IIs, everything is much cleaner and smoother. 

 

Those observations are listening through my tube rig with no tone/EQ/room correction.

 

 

[JFHSQT]

11 hours ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

Having owned way too many big Klipsch speakers over the years, including many LaScalas, Khorns, MWM, Jubes, etc. I prefer the sound of LaScalas and subs over just Khorns, or even Khorns with subs. You have a great combination there, and should not be wanting for anything except how to OPTIMIZE the setting for your room and taste buds!!

 

 

Optimizing is where I am at now! I am pretty happy with the mix between the ARC-EQ'd subs and the clean tube output (no room correction). It's great also to mix the Anthem (subs) louder or softer based on the song as well; some songs just need a little more oomf. 

 

I am pretty excited though to be swapping out the RP-115SW with a new SVS SB-16 Ultra that is arriving tomorrow. I had concerns about the trouble people have been having with the 115SW amp reliability and didn't want to kick myself a year from now if I have trouble (while I am still in my return/exchange period).

 

The one thing I want to experiment with now is setting a higher crossover frequency on the La Scalas... At 70Hz, there is some electric bass played higher on the neck that I think would sound better coming out of the subs instead of the LSII woofers. As someone said, I think the mids and highs at times outshine the bass on these speakers, and it may be better to hand off the frequencies below 90Hz or so to the subs.

Edited July 31, 2018 by JFHSQT

[ClaudeJ1]

49 minutes ago, JFHSQT said:

I think the mids and highs at times outshine the bass on these speakers, and it may be better to hand off the frequencies below 90Hz or so to the subs.

Keep in mind that LaScalas are a 104 Hz. short horn, so below that, they are just a direct radiating 15" woofer in a very tight internal "corner." So looking at an 80-100 Hz. range of subbing is a good thing. I would recommend using several bass guitar heavy recordings or better yet, drums.

 

My favorite recorded piece for testing bass resolution to determine proper Xover point to a sub is the Eagles intro to "Hotel California" from "Hell Freezes Over" CD. I'ts worth buying just for that cut. When the bass drum comes in, there are two distinct low frequency sound from the two hits, with a lower AND higher pitch. The ability to clearly distinguish those 2 different pitches requires great resolution to distinguish. So you can use that single cut as a determinant. Once you have selected a Xover point to give the best distinction of those sounds in your ROOM, you will have the best bass possible. Don't forget to redo your Room EQ after changing the crossover point. Rinse and repeat as necessary. Good luck.

[Panelhead]

3 hours ago, JFHSQT said:

What is your signal path from your source (DAC/preamp/amp, etc)? Could it be too much gain structure somewhere in the signal path? 

 

I will say that my experience with the LSIIs so far is a big improvement over my biggest gripe with the Heresy IIIs and Forte IIIs I previously owned, which is that the mids get a bit strident and grainy on dirtier mixes. I have been pleasantly surprised with the performance of the La Scalas on specific recordings that I didn't like listening to on the other 2 lines of speakers. An example is Maroon 5's "She Will Be Loved," not an exceptionally well mixed recording, but still pretty clean... but on the the HIIIs and FIIIs, once the distorted guitar, bass, and full drum kit kicked in around the 2nd chorus, it got very strident and sloppy in the mids. Now listening to the track on the La Scala IIs, everything is much cleaner and smoother. 

 

 

 

  This is what I hear. My Hiii seem less strident. I use a software crossover at 58 Hz. Using a four channel dac. 

  I think more hours will help, plus will bump the Xover to 70 Hz. 

  Gain structure may be an issue. I need to play with feedback on my amp to drop gain down a little. Have the LS ii padded down a little in the digital crossover to better match level of the Blue Sky Sub12. 

  It may be I am not used to such low distortion for the speaker. The grittiness heard at times is at all volumes. Most times the sound is wonderful.

 

[Tony Whitlow]

Personally, I wouldn't put any electronics on top of speakers, especially tube gear. But I am a big believer in footers and devices to eliminate vibrations in gear. I'm sure I'll get taken to task for that, but a lot of those products do work.
 
Shakey

Horns don’t vibrate


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[codewritinfool]

Horns don’t vibrate

What? I’m pretty sure mine do, along with the walls and floors.

[Tony Whitlow]

What? I’m pretty sure mine do, along with the walls and floors.

The tops of my LaScalas have no vibrations. The tops of my Heresys minimal.


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[garyrc]

Behold the kick drum:
http://www.moultonlabs.com/images/gallery_images/articles/mixing_kick_bass01_medium.gif

Moulton Laboratories :: Principles of Multitrack Mixing: The Kick Drum ...]

 

I really hope the link works; this is one of the most informative graphs I've seen.

 

Back in a brief stereo recording course I had, they told us that the kick lived at about 60 Hz.  Wrong moose-breath!  Aside from it depending on the individual kick drum, and on how it may be damped (not "dampened," hopefully), its range is quite wide, and most of it is above the lower limit of the La Scala II.  I would still try subwoofer crossovers between about 50 Hz and 80 Hz, trying to take as much advantage of the LS II's impeccable transient response as possible..

[Panelhead]

  I agree Gary. That is why I set it at 58 Hz. But maybe 65 or 70 would be better.