Vinyl Sound

[Tony Whitlow]

Now your CDs and downloads can sound as good as vinyl!

 

 

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[billybob]

1 hour ago, Tony Whitlow said:

 

Now your CDs and downloads can sound as good as vinyl!

 

 

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Amazing...; )...thanks!

[Guest wdecho]

I got a chuckle out of me seeing that. The CD vs Vinyl debate has been going since the introduction of CD's. For most the CD was more desirable for the obvious reasons. Now the CD market is on the decline for the mp3 files with even less fidelity. After trying to like CD's over vinyl for over 3 decades I have given up and now declare that vinyl is my medium of choice. Why, there are many that try to explain in technical terms but all I can say is I do not what it is that makes vinyl better than a CD or even care, it just sounds better. I am sure at least 90% of the mass market disagrees but then 90% of the market actually do not do seriously sit down without doing anything else and enjoying music for the sake of music. Personally I think it absurd to think one can chop up an analog signal into multiple bits of 1 and 0's and then recreate it and accurately capture everything. Something is going to be lost. Now even the 320 bitrate or less is good enough for the masses for their music enjoyment. The absolute best medium to accurately recreate a performance is going to be master tapes but the choice of music is very limited. The two mediums of CD's and vinyl of which CD's winning  that battle years ago, at least for the masses happened years ago. My biggest regret is that the music today is not analog recorded and put on vinyl. Us vinyl lovers are limited to the older vinyl of yesteryear. And yes I have many CD's and mp3 files with a better than average DAC for converting them but something is just lost and the format just cannot keep my attention like vinyl unless it is the music being different and enjoyable. I will still buy new recordings on CD's but there is no doubt in my mind that vinyl is superior sonic-ally.  

 

I decided to edit and include I just finished dragging a stone over plastic listening with my old technology Single Ended 45 tube amplifier with the less popular, for the masses, horn speakers. Then two channel listening itself is a dying form over HT for the masses. 

[Tony Whitlow]

I got a chuckle out of me seeing that. The CD vs Vinyl debate has been going since the introduction of CD's. For most the CD was more desirable for the obvious reasons. Now the CD market is on the decline for the mp3 files with even less fidelity. After trying to like CD's over vinyl for over 3 decades I have given up and now declare that vinyl is my medium of choice. Why, there are many that try to explain in technical terms but all I can say is I do not what it is that makes vinyl better than a CD or even care, it just sounds better. I am sure at least 90% of the mass market disagrees but then 90% of the market actually do not do seriously sit down without doing anything else and enjoying music for the sake of music. Personally I think it absurd to think one can chop up an analog signal into multiple bits of 1 and 0's and then recreate it and accurately capture everything. Something is going to be lost. Now even the 320 bitrate or less is good enough for the masses for their music enjoyment. The absolute best medium to accurately recreate a performance is going to be master tapes but the choice of music is very limited. The two mediums of CD's and vinyl of which CD's winning  that battle years ago, at least for the masses happened years ago. My biggest regret is that the music today is not analog recorded and put on vinyl. Us vinyl lovers are limited to the older vinyl of yesteryear. And yes I have many CD's and mp3 files with a better than average DAC for converting them but something is just lost and the format just cannot keep my attention like vinyl unless it is the music being different and enjoyable. I will still buy new recordings on CD's but there is no doubt in my mind that vinyl is superior sonic-ally.  
 
I decided to edit and include I just finished dragging a stone over plastic listening with my old technology Single Ended 45 tube amplifier with the less popular, for the masses, horn speakers. Then two channel listening itself is a dying form over HT for the masses. 

[emoji23]


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[Tony Whitlow]

[emoji23]


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After spending decades listening to LPs I was thrilled with the inception of CD. Replaced my favorite albums with CDs. Last year I sold my 500 LPs for a buck a piece. They had been doing nothing but taking up space for 35 years. I love the crystal clear music only sound of CD in two channel with my LaScalas.


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[Guest wdecho]

9 hours ago, Tony Whitlow said:

After spending decades listening to LPs I was thrilled with the inception of CD. Replaced my favorite albums with CDs. Last year I sold my 500 LPs for a buck a piece. They had been doing nothing but taking up space for 35 years. I love the crystal clear music only sound of CD in two channel with my LaScalas.


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Understandable, not everyone can hear the difference. Debate has never been settled after decades. Enjoy your CD's and I enjoy them too as well as mp3's but it does not change my opinion of LP's being best along with many discriminating listeners. I continue buying many LP's and not for being a nostalgia thing but for it's superior sound.

 

I am surprised no one else has posted on your thread. This debate has always been a hot subject over the years. Probably because streaming and mp3's are the most popular way of audio entertainment now. CD's are going the way LP's did in the past when CD's entered the market even though CD's are much more superior than mp3's or streaming. Convenience over quality of sound. 

[JohnKuthe]

1 hour ago, wdecho said:

Understandable, not everyone can hear the difference. Debate has never been settled after decades. Enjoy your CD's and I enjoy them too as well as mp3's but it does not change my opinion of LP's being best along with many discriminating listeners. I continue buying many LP's and not for being a nostalgia thing but for it's superior sound.

 

I am surprised no one else has posted on your thread. This debate has always been a hot subject over the years. Probably because streaming and mp3's are the most popular way of audio entertainment now. CD's are going the way LP's did in the past when CD's entered the market even though CD's are much more superior than mp3's or streaming. Convenience over quality of sound. 

The problem with DIGITIZATION is that it LOSES some of the analog sound information! Digitization uses a sample rate to SAMPLE the electrically analog sound waveform, creates a digital representation of the amplitude of that analog electrical waveform and IGNORES ALL THE OTHER ANALOG INFORMATION in that sample rate interval of the waveform. And yes there are electrical circuits which can make best guesses between the sample rate instances of sampling, but they are just best guesses, not the real thing. Can you hear the differences? Maybe, maybe not. 

John Kuthe...

 

[Guest wdecho]

I've also have heard it said that distortions that are always present in an analog recording is lost when digitized. I am past the point of trying to figure out why. I try to find LP's for my audio enjoyment and if one is not available I will buy CD only because it is the only form available for music I enjoy. I am glad to see the resurgence of vinyl for whatever reason. 

[billybob]

Think this one debate has been settled for awhile now so, no one really piling on. Had been mostly settled long before I got here. There has to be dozens of back and forths in the archives. Only thing I am going to say is, spinning a nice lp is blissful. With the right cd player and cd, it can come really very, very close but, ultimately, no cigar.

2 cnts...maybe. Taste is another factor...expect no blowback, lol...: )

[Tony Whitlow]

I've also have heard it said that distortions that are always present in an analog recording is lost when digitized. I am past the point of trying to figure out why. I try to find LP's for my audio enjoyment and if one is not available I will buy CD only because it is the only form available for music I enjoy. I am glad to see the resurgence of vinyl for whatever reason. 

Perhaps the distortions are in the groove.


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[JohnKuthe]

6 hours ago, wdecho said:

I've also have heard it said that distortions that are always present in an analog recording is lost when digitized. I am past the point of trying to figure out why. I try to find LP's for my audio enjoyment and if one is not available I will buy CD only because it is the only form available for music I enjoy. I am glad to see the resurgence of vinyl for whatever reason. 

Absolutely, because that was the EE challenge in Electrical Engineering4 years ago when there WERE NO DSPs and the EE had to instantiate it all basically with capacitors and coils/chokes. First and Second Order derivatives actually, let EEs do a LOT! Imagine how Nicola Tesla developed what HE did with NO COMPUTERS AT ALL!

John Kuthe...

[Edgar]

8 hours ago, JohnKuthe said:

The problem with DIGITIZATION is that it LOSES some of the analog sound information! Digitization uses a sample rate to SAMPLE the electrically analog sound waveform, creates a digital representation of the amplitude of that analog electrical waveform and IGNORES ALL THE OTHER ANALOG INFORMATION in that sample rate interval of the waveform.
 

 

Will this superstition never die?

[JohnKuthe]

4 hours ago, Edgar said:

 

Will this superstition never die?

That is NOT a superstition, it's cold hard fact. During the sample interval sampling of the analog waveform how is the amplitude "measured" or determined? Exactly ONE amplitude must be selected for the entire interval, because it's DIGITAL! 44.1Khz of 'em a sec, the DIGITAL sample rate on a continuously changing  analog waveform. A 44.1K a sec of digital representations cannot possibly trace the exact analog waveform.

Please explain your terse statement?

John  Kuthe...

 

[Edgar]

17 minutes ago, JohnKuthe said:

That is NOT a superstition, it's cold hard fact.

 

Asserting that it's a fact doesn't make it one. The mathematics of band-limited sampling prove the assertion to be false. It's that simple.

[dtr20]

https://www.klipsch.com/blog/top-4-vinyl-myths

[dbomberger]

I've determined not to worry about this debate at all, though it is always interesting to read about for a very few minutes.  Bottom line, I like Vinyl and do believe there is a difference.  It reminds me of photography in some ways.  Digital is fine, it is the standard and yet printing a photo on my large digital printer gives me little tactile joy-where working in the darkroom certainly did. I like getting up, cleaning a record to make sure I don't have any of the issues parodied by the box at the beginning of the topic.  I'm always reminded about how I kept my records but being so impressed by the "new" CD's, I stood with my very valuable turntable in my hands over the garbage can for several minutes before dropping it in and becoming a version of the thoroughly modern man of the moment.  A moment along with more than a few others I'd take back if given the opportunity. (Space-time rewind would be a nice feature).  I say, "don't worry, be happy", to each their own, etc.  I will recommend to anyone an experiment I conducted in the wive's absence of three weeks.  Rather than leaving the TV on our favorite flavor of news (doesn't matter which one, they are all lying bastards-oops, maybe I didn't mean that-yeah, yes I do).  I replaced too many hours of never ending "Breaking News/Lies" with about four hours a day of Vinyl, and a good deal of digital.  My life and attitude have been immeasurably improved.  Don't plan on going back, in fact I may shoot the TV before the next election cycle, since as Bill Murray said in one of his many great movies, "It just doesn't matter".

[robert_kc]

There are many modern classical recordings that were captured in hi-res, and are available to consumers in a variety of hi-res formats (SACD, Blu-ray, Pure Audio Blu-ray, Ultra HD Blu-ray, 24bit/192kHz downloads, and DSD downloads).  Hi-res recordings are available in stereo, multi-channel, and audio/video.   

 

For classical music, “LPs vs. CDs” is a false dichotomy.  

[Guest wdecho]

6 hours ago, dtr20 said:

https://www.klipsch.com/blog/top-4-vinyl-myths

Who is Brittainy Kelly? Just because it is written doesn't mean it is truth. Doesn't matter who she is though because among those with audio engineer degrees there are debates and arguments on most any subject. The decision we have to make is who to believe. But using common sense and God given ears I can hear a difference. But I will agree that a CD that is excellently produced will sound better than an old poorly produced vinyl of yesterday. I thought this thread would eventually take off with more post because the subject is still hotly debated and to be honest will never be settled. Many younger members, such as I was at one time, have a tendency to favor anything that is new and said to be an improvement and the elder members have a tendency to hold to the old values as being best. Human nature. I enjoy the debate here but it doesn't matter who can say they won because I find so much delight listening to vinyl whereas with CD's I find my attention span wandering wantingI something else to do. In other words vinyl can hold my attention better and I find more enjoyment. The only thing that really matters is we are enjoying music with our Klipsch speakers whatever the medium. 

[Guest wdecho]

6 hours ago, dbomberger said:

.  Rather than leaving the TV on our favorite flavor of news (doesn't matter which one, they are all lying bastards-oops, maybe I didn't mean that-yeah, yes I do).  I replaced too many hours of never ending "Breaking News/Lies" with about four hours a day of Vinyl, and a good deal of digital.  My life and attitude have been immeasurably improved.  Don't plan on going back, in fact I may shoot the TV before the next election cycle, since as Bill Murray said in one of his many great movies, "It just doesn't matter".

It has been said that history is the lie most have agreed on and that depends on where one lives and the lie they believe in.  

[Shakeydeal]

We can argue math and science all day. But the bottom line for me is that vinyl is more engaging. I have what is arguably a great digital front end that I enjoy immensely. But vinyl makes the music come alive and anyone that hears it in my system has a hard time denying it.

 

The argument against vinyl is much the same as the argument against horns. Most people that poo poo vinyl haven't heard a properly set up rig. You can make anything sound bad.

 

Shakey