250f vs 260f for large room

[texasnavy05]

Getting my first home theater system.  It will be going in our living room and used mainly for movies and general tv watching.  

The room is 20ftx22ft with cathedral ceilings (15 ft at top, 10 ft at lowest) and the room opens up to the back to our kitchen and dining area.

Listening position is about 15 ft from the center channel speaker.

 

My dilemma is this...We don't listen to anything very loud.  But I really appreciate good clear sound and special effects in movies etc.  And, I'd want the smallest footprint that will still sound good.

I'm debating the rp250f fronts with 440c or 260f fronts with the 450c.  I'm pretty sure I'll get the 115sw either way, and the 140sa for surround.  

 

Do I need the bigger speakers if we don't use much volume?  only reason I'm considering the bigger ones is due to the size of the room.

[willland]

@texasnavy05,

 

Welcome to the forum.

 

Big room likes big-ger speakers.  If you are set on the RP line, which by the way is a great choice, get the largest fronts/center you can afford and fit and also passes the WAF.  Your room is similar in overall size to my 5500ft3+ room and after a few changes over a few years, my RF-63/RC-64 combo are the smallest that I would consider for that space.

 

Bill

[RoboKlipsch]

ive owned the earlier rf52s and have heard most of the consumer lines.

 

with a good sub or 2 you will be just fine with the rp250f.  or any of the others

smaller is just fine crossing to subs.  

 

my opinion is all systems benefit from at least 1 or 2 quality subs, r115sw being one

larger woofers help the most with full range where subs arent used

 

the midbass is a bit stronger as woofer size increases but in a calibrated system even that isnt very different

 

since its a living room and you wont be adding acoustic panels a smaller set of fronts with smaller horns will direct the sound well to your listening area without spreading too wide and causing lots of reflections off the walls

 

one sub should be ok.  the room may require a second not to be louder but to make it smoother in your listening area

 

ive told a lot of folks the rp250c is a fine center

im not sure i would go bigger there either

 

rp250f, rp250c, rp250s, rp160m, rp150m all are fine choices for a modest yet totally capable system. 

Klipsch as a line of high sensitivity speakers especially has little need for large drivers except for full range setups which i dont recommend

[willland]

1 hour ago, RoboKlipsch said:

with a good sub or 2 you will be just fine with the rp250f.  or any of the others

smaller is just fine crossing to subs.  

 

my opinion is all systems benefit from at least 1 or 2 quality subs, r115sw being one

larger woofers help the most with full range where subs arent used

While I totally agree with you about multiple subs, and agree mostly with your philosophy, but that is a big room and they sit 15ft away.

 

Bill

[texasnavy05]

ive owned the earlier rf52s and have heard most of the consumer lines.
 
with a good sub or 2 you will be just fine with the rp250f.  or any of the others
smaller is just fine crossing to subs.  
 
my opinion is all systems benefit from at least 1 or 2 quality subs, r115sw being one
larger woofers help the most with full range where subs arent used
 
the midbass is a bit stronger as woofer size increases but in a calibrated system even that isnt very different
 
since its a living room and you wont be adding acoustic panels a smaller set of fronts with smaller horns will direct the sound well to your listening area without spreading too wide and causing lots of reflections off the walls
 
one sub should be ok.  the room may require a second not to be louder but to make it smoother in your listening area
 
ive told a lot of folks the rp250c is a fine center
im not sure i would go bigger there either
 
rp250f, rp250c, rp250s, rp160m, rp150m all are fine choices for a modest yet totally capable system. 
Klipsch as a line of high sensitivity speakers especially has little need for large drivers except for full range setups which i dont recommend

Would a single 115sw be better than 2 smaller subs? (Svs pb1000).

Also, could I get away with bookshelves instead of towers? Something like 250c, rp160m for fronts, and 2 pb1000 subs.

With a setup like that is there any issues with placing the bookshelves directly on top of the subs? They subs would be roughly the same height as my console but I could move them out further on top of the subs.

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[willland]

1 hour ago, texasnavy05 said:

Would a single 115sw be better than 2 smaller subs? (Svs pb1000).

For HT and wanting low frequency extension, I say absolutely yes.  You could always add another 115sw later if you choose.

 

1 hour ago, texasnavy05 said:

Also, could I get away with bookshelves instead of towers? Something like 250c, rp160m for fronts, and 2 pb1000 subs.

Will it work?  Of course.  Will it give you the "bigness" in your huge room that is "needed" for high impact action films where a pressurized space will give you that tactile feel?  I say no.  Been there done that.  In my similar size room I did not feel that tactile feeling until I added my SVS SB-13 Plus to my existing Revel B15 and Klipsch RSW-10d.  And then I was still not where I wanted to be. 

 

Bill

[rebuy]

Small speakers and a sub are OK----BUT---IMHO---for the room filling mid bass sounds,

a larger speaker is going to be better. It's easy to get the THUMP THUMP sound from a sub

but it needs to be filled with the mid bass that a large speaker provides. 

I have 4 bookies sitting in storage and they sound fine but they don't sound as good as my towers.

[RoboKlipsch]

4 hours ago, texasnavy05 said:

Would a single 115sw be better than 2 smaller subs? (Svs pb1000).

Also, could I get away with bookshelves instead of towers? Something like 250c, rp160m for fronts, and 2 pb1000 subs.

With a setup like that is there any issues with placing the bookshelves directly on top of the subs? They subs would be roughly the same height as my console but I could move them out further on top of the subs.

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2 subs is better than 1.  My opinion is get a pb2000 and buy another down the road.  But given your choices 2 pb1000s.   Neither the pb1000 or r115sw have the extension I would be after (1000 goes down to 20, 115 to about 18).    Used is fine.  

 

You definitely can use rp160m rp250c and subs.  I have that very setup or did until I replaced the rp250c with a third matching rp160m.  

 

Bookshelves involve a floor bounce which can be negative. Further, placing them on the subs imo has 2 issues.  

 

1....if you are willing to put bookshelf speakers on subs then get floorstanding speakers.  They don't require stands and avoid floor bounce (because the physical enclosure goes all the way to the floor).

 

2....subs should not be placed flanking the front speakers or under them unless those are the best spots...which they are not.  Sub location will determine how good the system is.

 

We all have opinions.  

 

I have subs, midbass modules, floorstanding speakers and bookshelf speakers.  I have 12" woofers in one setup and rp160ms (6.5" woofers) in the other.  

 

The qualitative issues between the systems is not related to the woofers.  It is the rooms.  One is highly treated like a theater, one is not (the living room).  

 

Again just my opinion but I can make rp160m, rp250fs or rf7s sound almost the same in a given room.  

 

Basic principles of proper placement and setup are way more important than what speakers.  Subs are different and quality is tremendously important.   Not saying crap mains are ok...just that at a certain quality level the issues are not speaker related.  

 

I'm sitting at a table behind the couch that is 20ft from the rp160ms and there's no issue with anything.  They have more than I can use still.  Same for rp250c.  They don't make it because its smaller and cheaper they make it because it's easily enough in most any room.  It's the larger ones that rope people in.  The idea is not to have the largest possible center but that often seems to be the solution for folks that have trouble hearing their center clearly.  Hint -- it's not the speaker.  

 

[Paducah Home Theater]

No way would I get rp-250f's for that size room, at least get the 260's.  I have jubilees in a smaller room.  Most people get the rp-280f's, or even rf-7iii if the budget allows.  250f's sound good but they start to get into compromise territory and don't look super impressive.  They will fill the room though.  My living room has RP-160M's and fill it just fine but those aren't the only speakers that I have.  There's Forte III and La Scala's right next to them.  

 

[texasnavy05]

I've got it narrowed down a bit more now.  Having to do some tradeoffs to meet budget.  

 

Option 1 : 250f fronts, 250c, r115sw

 

Option2 : 260f fronts, 250c, r112sw

 

 

[jjennings2510]

I would go with option 2 with the smaller sub. You can always add a second sub later. I have a theater setup in a bonus room and also sit about 16 feet back. I started off with bookshelf speakers that sounded pretty good..then got some rf-25s (early version of the 260. 6" woofers) that were a nice jump. But I didn't really get that impact and soundstage I wanted until I got up to the rf82s and I eventually swapped those for the rf-7 ii. I started off with a sub 10 and eventually got a couple of klipsch reference 12" subs. I would go with the 260s and see how they suit you. Worst case scenario you can always resell them or move them to surround duty if you ever upgrade in the future. (I have my 82s doing surround duty for my 7s.)


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[RoboKlipsch]

On 8/20/2018 at 11:31 AM, texasnavy05 said:

I've got it narrowed down a bit more now.  Having to do some tradeoffs to meet budget.  

 

Option 1 : 250f fronts, 250c, r115sw

 

Option2 : 260f fronts, 250c, r112sw

 

 

The difference in mains is one can play a few hz lower....and the sub will make that moot.  The other benefit of the 260 is a tiny bit more midbass assuming you don't use audyssey or similar.  The horn is slightly larger which in an untreated room is NOT necessarily better.  

 

Difference in subs is one plays lower.  Something you cannot easily fix if you want lower later.  

 

Just my 2c but all the bass is controlled by the subs.  I would not sacrifice sub capability to have a slightly larger woofer or horn.  

 

Subs and the room determine the systems potential.  Mains are important...very important but size of mains is generally not.  Once you are in the quality level of klipsch reference premiere the differences in mains is not big unless you run without subs.  

 

Now if having the smallest mains bothers you get the 260s.  Or even the 280s.  But they get bigger and bigger and the differences...larger woofer and horn...are not priorities in your situation -- reasonable non reference volume levels but very capable and a living room where huge speakers will look cool but maybe not be the wanted look.

 

 

[texasnavy05]

1 hour ago, RoboKlipsch said:

The difference in mains is one can play a few hz lower....and the sub will make that moot.  The other benefit of the 260 is a tiny bit more midbass assuming you don't use audyssey or similar.  The horn is slightly larger which in an untreated room is NOT necessarily better.  

 

Difference in subs is one plays lower.  Something you cannot easily fix if you want lower later.  

 

Just my 2c but all the bass is controlled by the subs.  I would not sacrifice sub capability to have a slightly larger woofer or horn.  

 

Subs and the room determine the systems potential.  Mains are important...very important but size of mains is generally not.  Once you are in the quality level of klipsch reference premiere the differences in mains is not big unless you run without subs.  

 

Now if having the smallest mains bothers you get the 260s.  Or even the 280s.  But they get bigger and bigger and the differences...larger woofer and horn...are not priorities in your situation -- reasonable non reference volume levels but very capable and a living room where huge speakers will look cool but maybe not be the wanted look.

 

 

after measuring again...I think I'm going to go with the 250f's and pb2000 for their smaller footprint.  I've got 110" MAX wall to wall width.  TV takes up 65 inches.  so ive got 45 inches of width left to put two towers and a sub.  and, thats not leaving any space in between components.  so with 8 inch wide 250f's and 18 inch wide sub I'm left with only 11 inches to spread out between all of the components and most of that will be pulling towers away from the TV.  

 

So, I'm really hoping they sound good even though the room is pretty big.  

As of now, I've got 250f's front, 450c center, pb2000 sub, and rp140sa for surrounds.  

 

I've been going back and forth on the rp140sa or rp240s for surrounds, but I'm going to be forced to mount them at the top of our side walls and im thinking since they are 10-12 ft from the MLP I would be better off with the 140sa instead of the dipole surrounds.  And the angle of the 140sa will get them pointed pretty closely to the MLP.  Or, would the rp240s sound better since they will diffuse and not be as easy to locate.  I've attached some photos of my Living room to show my dilemma (excuse the mess).  Wife has already said no speakers mounted on the walls, so they will have to be up in the corners of the wall/ceiling.  It puts them at about 100 degrees from MLP but about 3 feet too high.  

Edited August 22, 2018 by texasnavy05
pics didnt show up

[RoboKlipsch]

in your large living room surrounds up high is good 

 

my take is the surrounds could be bookshelf speakers or WDSTs (not really bipoles exactly but close enough).

id look at rp250s or 240s for smaller, or rp150m.  all would do great.

 

on wall by the black recliner is a nice out of the way spot and matches well to where the door opens on the other side, basically flanking each black  recliner

 

[willland]

On 8/22/2018 at 2:16 PM, texasnavy05 said:

TV takes up 65 inches

So your TV is 65 inches edge to edge or is the screen 65" diagonal?

 

Bill

[texasnavy05]

So your TV is 65 inches edge to edge or is the screen 65" diagonal?
 
Bill

65 inches wide

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[willland]

1 hour ago, texasnavy05 said:

65 inches wide

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Got it.

 

Bill