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ozolius

Building a Heritage type center channel with a folded horn

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I have La Scala midrange and tweeter components left over after modifying my La Scala II speakers. I am currently using a RC64II as a center. I was thinking of building a folded horn type center speaker with 2 smaller woofers instead of a 15" to reduce the height of the speaker below the TV height. The 2 woofers would be side by side and the front of the cabinet would look like 2 smaller La scala/Belle type cabinets fused together. My question would what do you all think the smallest woofer to utilize and still benefit from the folded horn "dog house" type cabinet enclosure. 10" would be best for overall cabinet dimensions but i'm afraid they wouldn't emit the necessary punch in this arrangement. Any thoughts????

Screen Shot 2018-08-18 at 5.13.16 PM.png

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your going to have to put a lot of thought into it before cutting... there's a lot of math there.

 

you dont want another LSii?

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8 foot ceiling, I'd like to keep to TV where it's at. I'm a proficient woodworker but need to figure out the math prior, the top cabinet will be straight forward. The woofers would be separated from each other.

 

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1 hour ago, ozolius said:

8 foot ceiling, I'd like to keep to TV where it's at. I'm a proficient woodworker but need to figure out the math prior, the top cabinet will be straight forward. The woofers would be separated from each other.

 

I would figure out the box size first. Since you want to keep tv a present height I would measure first and then figure out depth and width available. Once you get box diminesions I think it would easier to look at different bass bin available. Quarter pies are flat at 17 inches high, bigger across the front but some people have cut them down from 48 inches. Are you running a sub?

 

Might have to make some compromise's. I have a diy chorus 2 center and had to raise the tv up some but it was worth it. 

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I'm using an 18" sub, looking to make something that really stands out, something that Klipsch should have made but hasn't (yet). I can make the top cabinet less high than the one on the La Scala, the cabinet can be wider than a La Scala, just not as tall. Pics of your DIY?

 

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18 hours ago, ozolius said:

My question would what do you all think the smallest woofer to utilize and still benefit from the folded horn "dog house" type cabinet enclosure. 10" would be best for overall cabinet dimensions but i'm afraid they wouldn't emit the necessary punch in this arrangement. Any thoughts????

I don't understand your design concept.  In other words, what is your acoustic goal?  Clarity at low volume TV listening levels?  High performance chest thumping sound at 105 db for listening to your music?  A pleasant sound for medium listening?

 

It sounds like you want to create a center speaker just because you have some leftover parts from another project.  You haven't addressed the crossover at all.  What do you have in mind to use for a crossover?

 

I'm asking those questions not to argue but to help you articulate your thinking process to yourself.  I can see you putting a lot of time and money into a center speaker project that essentially is going to cost a lot and not sound very good for your intended purpose.  Kind of like putting a motocross engine with a lot of torque into a road race bike which needs a lot of horsepower at high RPM.  You could do it but it won't win you any races.

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A smaller horn with a low cutoff around 100-125 Hz will be sufficient for movies as the center speaker is for dialog. For music reproduction something that matches the frequency response of the flanking speakers yields the best results. 

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You want a horn loaded cabinet with two 10 inchers that will reach 500+ Hz.?

 

You han probably us the tractrix horn calculator that almost everyone on here uses to design tractrix horns:

http://wp.volvotreter.de/dl-section/tools/

 

You could place the two woofers facing each other (like each leg of a 'V' structure.. ) It shouldn't be too complex.

 

Bruce

 

 

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5 hours ago, wvu80 said:

I don't understand your design concept.  In other words, what is your acoustic goal?  Clarity at low volume TV listening levels?  High performance chest thumping sound at 105 db for listening to your music?  A pleasant sound for medium listening?

 

It sounds like you want to create a center speaker just because you have some leftover parts from another project.  You haven't addressed the crossover at all.  What do you have in mind to use for a crossover?

 

I'm asking those questions not to argue but to help you articulate your thinking process to yourself.  I can see you putting a lot of time and money into a center speaker project that essentially is going to cost a lot and not sound very good for your intended purpose.  Kind of like putting a motocross engine with a lot of torque into a road race bike which needs a lot of horsepower at high RPM.  You could do it but it won't win you any races.

Yes, you are right the leftover parts initiated this thought process, that and and a long standing belief that Klipsch should have a Heritage style center. I also think that the visual presentation if I made it look like a factory item would be really cool! I thought I might use a La Scala Crites crossover so that the cutoff frequencies are the same for LSII drivers. I mainly listen to music 2.1 so the center would be for movies and 5.1 content which can include live concert video. It doesn't need to dig as deep as a La Scala, which doesn't dig to the lowest frequencies anyway. I enjoy building things and the creative process, not always taking the most practical path to get there. I had built a playhouse for the kids with 5.1 sound, heat and AC. It was a little over the top but I enjoy the process. I like the sound of the RC64 which I see you have as well. I can repurpose it to another set up in the house. This project just popped in my head, so I'm a ways away from executing it. Figure cost could be $800-1000 using my existing drivers.

 

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6 minutes ago, ozolius said:

I had built a playhouse for the kids with 5.1 sound, heat and AC

 

Just had to say that's pretty cool!!!

 

I built a cat house....for my cats.  Used stuff laying around.  It had 2 stories, used 2x6 lumber, space heater and was insulated.  Looked a bit like our house since I used the same materials.  The roof was hinged so I could get into it if necessary.  (had to move the darn thing with my loader!)

 

Cats (two of them) never touched it however, I did find an Opossum in there, basking in the warmth.

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, ozolius said:

They never used it! That’s a shame but I have dats and I get it.

 

Is that what happens when a dog and cat get a little too close?  🐕🐈:emotion-25:

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28 minutes ago, ozolius said:

I had built a playhouse for the kids with 5.1 sound, heat and AC.

I just saw your pic directly upstream ^^^.  No elevator??? 

 

You're a terrible dad!  :lol:

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I built a Klipsch-derived center channel some years ago. Two 8" Klipsch woofers from Apex Jr. (home of great deals), a K-401, the Atlas driver, and the Crites 125 tweeter. Modified AA network, with the extra inductor to tame the top of the midrange. The mid and tweeter are mounted on their own baffle which is angled 10 degrees up so that their output is directed to seated listeners' ears, and not their ankles. The mid/tweeter baffle and bass box sit under the monitor stand.

 

For a center for TV audio I question why a folded horn would be worth the trouble. You might get better results using either a small straight horn, with cutoff of 100 Hz, such as that found in the Voice of the Theater, or just one or two direct radiators of appropriate size.

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5 hours ago, boom3 said:

For a center for TV audio I question why a folded horn would be worth the trouble. You might get better results using either a small straight horn, with cutoff of 100 Hz, such as that found in the Voice of the Theater,...

 

That was why I suggested the tractrix for the two woofers. Using Erik's spreadsheet, it's pretty easy to use. Note, though, that his spreadsheet has the two flat pieces on the sides (verticle), and the curved as the top and bottom. (see pic)

 

Bruce

tractrix_midbass.jpg

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