SET or PP on full range

[joessportster]

They are here, VRD in the house and much to my surprise the VRD sounds much better on the 15" AN full range. I cant explain it yet need more time for this to sink in I also want to get the tubes aligned and will report back. I think it is that the VRD just has the Ooomph to control the 15" driver much better......................More to come

[Schu]

I haven't seen the differences in dampening factor, but I bet that that's part of it.

[rplace]

19 minutes ago, joessportster said:

They are here, VRD in the house and much to my surprise the VRD sounds much better on the 15" AN full range. I cant explain it yet need more time for this to sink in I also want to get the tubes aligned and will report back. I think it is that the VRD just has the Ooomph to control the 15" driver much better......................More to come

 

Congrats, no shipping problem I'm hoping.

[joessportster]

On my third set of VRD amps by Craig Ostby, whom we all know here on klipsch forums. 
I sold the first 2 sets. I am listening and for the life of me I can not hear why 
anyone would ever sell these amps.  While I Pretend I dont know why I sold the amps
the truth is I do know. I had a vastly different audio setup.
It has been quite a long journey to get here. "Full Circle" is how Craig described
it.  My first tube experience was a visit to Garymd Home where he had
a pair of Craigs upgraded Dynaco MK3 Monos connected to K-Hornss in his basement, and 
upstairs he had one of Craigs refreshed 299 integrated connected to cornwalls

.

I remember leaving Gay's home with one thing on my mind, I am getting TUBES" I promptly 
sold my SS Phase Linear and Onkyo Gear, I sold my Beloved Infinity RS3B. I contacted Craig
and ordered a pair of upgraded Dynaco MK3, A few days Later I swithed that order to Craigs VRD
Now you see where Full Circle comes into play, My very first Tube amp was a pair of VRD
and My final Tube amps are the VRD again 

 

Synergy my friends, Synergy is the name of this game we are all chasing. I gave up vinyl for a few
reasons. and am now 100% digital Mainly PC to dac to preamp to amps to speakers. Set on the couch
and have over 3000 LP at the click of a mouse to choose from. With Digital come all those drawbacks
Edgy, Bright, Fatiguing SQ with no emotion to draw one into the music (why even listen, It can suck
I tell you)

 

I have made some major changes to my listening area and gear of late, and I can tell you I was mightily 
DISSAPPOINTED, There was soundstage to die for, there was imaging, I have detail, some Music never 
sounded so good. Then why the hell am I ready to turn it off after only a few minutes ? I wont bore 
you further with each piece that came and went in an effort to find the problem. I will just say 
there were 3 SET varients, and 1 PP that quickly came and went. I was made an offer by Michael to
purchase his spare set of VRD (Who the heck has the dough to keep a pair of VRD as spares)

 

Enter the VRD's with a Jupiter Cap upgrade. AAAAAHHHHHHHH  HHHHHAAAAAA, There it is. The missing Link
Digital sounds fine now, 4 plus hour listening sessions and HAPPY to be there again.
While the VRD may not be the final word in amplifiers I cann tell you in my setup I seriously doubt 
anyone could find fault with them. I know when the music is causing emotion, I have a tell
I will have a chill run up my spine. The VRD have evoked more chills than anything I can recall
for quite some time.

 

Thank you Craig AKA NOS Valves, Michael (AKA SCHU), You actually have my wife commenting on the music
no small feat. When I ask for an opinion it's like pulling teeth. For her to walk up and offer an 
opinion is unheard of. You guys have put the MUSIC back into my MUSIC

[Schu]

Love to you to... enjoy.

[joessportster]

29 minutes ago, Schu said:

Love to you to... enjoy.

 

I am my friend, Thoroughly  

 

Loving the sound without the tubes, Bought a few to play around with found a guy on AK that has a stash of great vintage tubes, Got the 1950's ribbed Telefunkens, Got a pair of 12au7 mullards, a pair of NOS 1960's Reaalistic long plates, and a pair of cleartop rca

 

also have a new quad of shuguang KT88-98, another quad of Ruby el34, I have those psvane ax and au coming,  Saw SEVERAL posts people raving about the sovtek 12ax7-lps so got a pair hoping for a new production jewell, Couple tungsol rectifiers

 

I went a little tube crazy but I am done buying gear so I should be able to play a bit with tubes 

[Schu]

Your experience is EXACTLY what I went thru when I got my first set of VRD's...

 

I feel we are all probably looking for something different,  I also think experienced listeners have commonalities that are important to them... the VRD, with a nice set of tubes and Jupiter capacitors, really tick all the boxes quite thoroughly.

 

It just sounds right.

 

There is also some minor gains to had by getting a decent rectifier tube set.

[tube fanatic]

9 hours ago, Schu said:

There is also some minor gains to had by getting a decent rectifier tube set.

A rectifier tube cannot influence the sound in any way unless its output voltage is radically different from another tube with which it is compared.  It is not in the signal chain.  Obviously, tube rolling is a very personal matter; however, there's no point in throwing money at something which is electrically incapable of producing the desired effect.

 

Remember as well that most tube equipment is designed to operate over a wide line voltage range- often from 105-125.  The supply voltage variations from this are more likely to change operating parameters than swapping one healthy rectifier tube for another.

 

 

Maynard

[Schu]

And yet there are audible differences... this isn't an issue of economics.

[tube fanatic]

8 minutes ago, Schu said:

And yet there are audible differences... this isn't an issue of economics.

Michael, see my comments about tube rolling in Joe's thread in the tubes section. 

 

 

Maynard

[Schu]

Ten four good sir...

 

I definitely agree with your technical analysis of the use of the rec tube... I differ to your prowess. 

 

However I have tried several different units and, while very subtle, there are some audibly subtle differences. How and why that is created, I have no idea.

 

I currently use the copper edged RCA's and while there maybe little changes for better rectifier tubes, I am very satisfied over most low cost "stock" tubes that come shipped with many amplifiers.

 

Don't expect nirvana, but incremental increases... imho

[Guest wdecho]

1 hour ago, tube fanatic said:

 

Remember as well that most tube equipment is designed to operate over a wide line voltage range- often from 105-125.  The supply voltage variations from this are more likely to change operating parameters than swapping one healthy rectifier tube for another.

 

 

Maynard

Changing the cathode resistance has much the same effect. I once heard a pot there is a good idea. 

[mikebse2a3]

3 hours ago, tube fanatic said:

A rectifier tube cannot influence the sound in any way unless its output voltage is radically different from another tube with which it is compared.  It is not in the signal chain.  Obviously, tube rolling is a very personal matter; however, there's no point in throwing money at something which is electrically incapable of producing the desired effect.

 

I would disagree with the statement that the rectifier isn't in the signal chain. The 'signal chain' of an amplifier is in the end all about modulating the power supply to create voltage gain and the power supply has to supply the current demand necessary to support the gain.

 

 I can see how a given rectifier could influence the sound of an amplifier not by just the output voltage differences but also by any difference in the ability to supply current under the dynamic conditions that the amplifier must operate.  

 

miketn

[tube fanatic]

4 hours ago, mikebse2a3 said:

I can see how a given rectifier could influence the sound of an amplifier not by just the output voltage differences but also by any difference in the ability to supply current under the dynamic conditions that the amplifier must operate.  

 

miketn

Mike, we basically we are saying the same thing.  As you know, the voltage drop in a rectifier tube is dependent on the current draw.  I have no experience with modern production tubes- but, if I were to try a dozen NOS RCA 5U4s, for example, there would be very little difference from one to the next in terms of voltage output as a function of the current drawn even under dynamic conditions.  Of course, we also have to consider the p/s design relative to the amount of storage capacity in the caps as well as the presence or absence of a choke, whether it uses a choke input filter, and so on. 

 

As with everything, if Michael believes there is a difference, and that one rectifier tube sounds better than another, then that's the only criterion which has to be considered.  After all, he's the one who has to be satisfied with his system.  Whether or not I, or anyone else, disagrees, is irrelevant.  One last point though is that one cannot make a blanket recommendation to others based on one's impression due to the p/s considerations I mentioned above.  

 

 

Maynard