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Large K-79 Tweeter Horn Lens Road Show


Dave A

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3 hours ago, Deano1974 said:

Dave do these fit La Scala IIs ?

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The horn lens itself is the same size - fit as a klipsch k 79, my concern is the size of the de10 driver.  

Looked at pics Dave posted again, top pair is k79 guessing bottom pics are for k 77 replacement?

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13 hours ago, Ljk said:

 

Which speakers are you using these in, will they fit (work) in a chorus speaker?

I have a pair of the larger MAHL sets in a Forte II and Chorus I in my shop as I speak and yes the DE10 fit as well as the DE110,120 and others.

 

7 hours ago, Deano1974 said:

Dave do these fit La Scala IIs ?

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I have fit a small set of lenses. the K-77 drop in replacements in La Scalas. I have not had a La Scala II motor board to measure but it should fit if they use the K-77 size. To date the only problem with fit in La Scalas, Heresy's, KHorns was a set of KHorns where one fit fine and the other had to be worked on. The buyer said the holes were not consistent from pre cnc Klipsch and he had to work to get them in. B&C DE110 has basically the same output and output characteristics as the DE120 and has a smaller diameter to fit into even smaller spaces. If you are considering these and are worried about fit you can always measure the inside of your horn cabinet and tell me what clearance you have. These all should be cnc cut and accurate and consistent from unit to unit.

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5 hours ago, Schu said:

I would think the shape is slightly different at the corners of the mount... the LSii could  be modified to fit the lense.

Anyone out there that can measure accurately the tweeter and mid horn cutouts in the La Scala II that would care to send them to me? I also need the measurement from the top of the tweeter cutout to the bottom side of the top of the cabinet.

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4 hours ago, Ljk said:

The horn lens itself is the same size - fit as a klipsch k 79, my concern is the size of the de10 driver.  

Looked at pics Dave posted again, top pair is k79 guessing bottom pics are for k 77 replacement?

Do you have pictures? A DE10 will not work in a space designed to use my K-77 dropins. The K-77 horn lens is far different than the K-79.  What do you mean the horn lens is the same size?

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4 hours ago, Dave A said:

Do you have pictures? A DE10 will not work in a space designed to use my K-77 dropins. The K-77 horn lens is far different than the K-79.  What do you mean the horn lens is the same size?

Your lens  compared to a k 79 is exactly the same size - perfect fit. Was not sure if the de10 driver on your lens would be too big to correctly fit in a chorus speaker. 

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9 hours ago, Dave A said:

Anyone out there that can measure accurately the tweeter and mid horn cutouts in the La Scala II that would care to send them to me? I also need the measurement from the top of the tweeter cutout to the bottom side of the top of the cabinet.

I think it's the radius for the corners on the mount... they are "slightly" different than the CW and LS and khorn. They would be able to be used, but one would need to permanently change the tweeter mount area... again ever so slightly.

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17 hours ago, Ljk said:

Your lens  compared to a k 79 is exactly the same size - perfect fit. Was not sure if the de10 driver on your lens would be too big to correctly fit in a chorus speaker. 

You can use a lot of drivers on this one but not all will fit through the motor board cutout. You might have to screw the horn lens to the motor board and then reach in behind to fasten the clamp plate/driver assembly  to the horn lens. I have done this by removing the mid and woofer for access and it can be a bit tedious to do since you can't see what you are doing. Depending on clearance between the clamp plate and driver you might also have to use an allen wrench that is cut off a bit shorter than normal. The 1 3/8 clamp plate is the easiest one to use in this case with larger drivers if they make them with the 1 3/8 snout. We all have to work with what Klipsch gives us which can make things interesting at times.

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12 hours ago, Schu said:

I think it's the radius for the corners on the mount... they are "slightly" different than the CW and LS and khorn. They would be able to be used, but one would need to permanently change the tweeter mount area... again ever so slightly.

 Yes and if I knew what this was it is probable that I can make the corner radius bigger from now on to fit if indeed the horn lens needs to be changed at all to fit. I can't find ANY information regarding this newer tweeter's dimensions.

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11 hours ago, windashine said:

Suppose a wooden K-5-J installation is proposed (in the middle) the thought begins next as the sound wave from the midrange begin step one of the diffusion principles needing total streamline cnc reflections to the size of the tweeter driver.... suppose  

????

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Dave,

I think he is meaning mounting your horn in the mouth of the Khorn's early mid horn (K-5-J), so that the back side of the tweeter would be more aerodynamic. See the attached image of the K-5-J with the vertical K77.

 

Bruce

 

k-j-5_horn.jpg

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hello, I was referencing the tweeter installation in the top of the k-horn, where since the 50's, they have been attached to the middle support of the squawker... and it just seemed (yesterday evening) that all the radius routing requests to fit multiple types of boxed speaker installations could include the Klipschorn. … they would as currently designed, utilizing the bracket holes... "but" I had this dos equis intervention at the time, so I'll just enclose an example of two, but it seems as though the economics of this design would entail a 4 inch slab of aluminum, thus putting on the brakes before cnc trials would end in tribulations... I'm going to try this with wood, eventually.... the attempt I suppose, was to alleviate any obstacles in front of the midrange, not that there is anything wrong with that, because diffusion, absorption, and refraction are measured to an end result of the listeners position in the room....

 

 

abstractspeaker32_LI.jpg

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40 minutes ago, Marvel said:

Dave,

I think he is meaning mounting your horn in the mouth of the Khorn's early mid horn (K-5-J), so that the back side of the tweeter would be more aerodynamic. See the attached image of the K-5-J with the vertical K7

 

Thank you, I think that's number 1517 lol, 

 

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Anything can be done but for a one of type unit it will not be cheap. I have to figure out what you want, then we trade drawings and measurements, then I have to do a 3D CAD part so I can then create a machining plan and THEN finally get around to cutting.

 

  I am going to go over somethings here not because I am whining or complaining but I want to explain some basics about what is involved here. Most have absolutely no idea how things get done.

 

  If I were to have charged someone for the tweeter designs it would have been AT LEAST appx $650.00  as I look back to see the billable time spent. Then the CAM plan for machining a one of part would be another $150.00. Then there is machine time and that and material would amount to about $90.00. People who are not in the industry have no idea of costs. The design program is typically $7,000.00 for a good one and then another $1,500.00 each year for support and new updates. Three axis machining programs worth a hoot are at least $6,500 to start off with and quickly go up from there and yes they are another $1,500 per year to stay current. Then there is the mill you cut them on which in my case was right at $96,000.00 and the shop to put that in and the endmills and holders for them to cut the parts and it never ends. Vices and holders add another 7 or 8 G when you are done tooling up.

 

  Also this aerodynamic thing sounds good but I still have to have a way to tie all the pieces together and be able to bolt the clamp plate to the horn which means it will protrude beyond the footprint of the driver itself. I see that someone has stuck a tweeter in the mid horn lens but that seems contrary to producing good sound. 

 

  This kind of thing can consume far more time than people realize who do not do this for a living. It would cost just to even figure out what can be done and to do the CAD file and that would be up front and not refundable.  I run across this in business and companies want you to figure things out for free and then they decide not to do it and there you are. I made a rule some time back that if you are not willing to pay for things like this up front you are not serious. I don't intend for this to sound harsh it's just that you have no idea how many times I get asked to spend what can be days for free and these little things can easily do that by the time we go back and forth.

 

  Its just like I was asked recently here on the forum to design something that would adapt a DE120 to a KP-600 manifold. Now I did this because I was curious to do the same thing for my MCM 1900. But what about the guy who wanted the time? Oh that's nice I like that he says. He goes on and states I am thinking though that I am going to sell these off and so I don't know if I am interested or not. I will get back to you if I decide I am. This is how 90% plus of these things turn out when your time is given for free and that is why I respectfully decline this little item unless you are serious and we will figure out what it will cost before I do anything.

 

  Or you can buy a horn lens kit and use some little angle brackets like that picture shows and do it that way. The horn lens bolt holes to the motorboard should work fine for that.

 

  I am thinking of something free standing for these horn lenses to sit on top of things where they can be moved around for time alignment. If I decide to do this I absorb all the development costs hoping for sales. Before I do anything further though I am going to wait and see how these existing horns lens kits do. I would like for them to sell and lead to other things because I enjoy tinkering with speakers but we will see.

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8 hours ago, windashine said:

Carry on with the original K79 concept... you are so correct in the cost and design factors, time is invisible to the curious... and for one, thank you for pointing out the detail's and by the way too, keep up the good work !!!

Thanks and I was hoping I did not sound harsh but I thought it was time to explain some things about how objects are created and the cost of doing so. 

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20 hours ago, Dave A said:

Thanks and I was hoping I did not sound harsh but I thought it was time to explain some things about how objects are created and the cost of doing so. 

The "harsh realities" you speak of are the same as the comments from "armchair quarterbacks." To which, I say, it's always easy if you are not the one that has to do it. LOL.

 

In the same manner, don't get me started on the cost of trailering light, lights modifiers, cameras, models, and assistants to a commercial photo shoot where the customer never sees the prep time (phone calls, arrangements, gear testing, etc.) maintenance costs, insurance costs, travel time, and post process time, etc. (real world). In contrast to  the now dilituted perceived value of Professional Photography because of iPhones of "P" settings on cheap SLR cameras of today makes it too damn easy and cheap to get an image of high mediocrity lighting.

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