garyrc Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 4 hours ago, oldtimer said: What is mind? No matter. What is matter? Never mind. Or not. I should add that time is just one thing after another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyrc Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 4 hours ago, Mallette said: Avoiding anything remotely religious, I'd comment that through certain non-spiritual philosophers I've learned what appears to logically be an absolute. A temporal being, such as a human, cannot even for a moment comprehend non-temporality. One of the Chinese masters, in fact, says the moment you think you can you have drifted into self delusion. This took years for me to digest, but I've come to realize, as has been mentioned, that one can know the answer to "eternity" only through crossing from temporal planes to non-temporal planes. So, one might as well relax and not worry over it. Might add that these folks also agree that non-temporal beings are no more capable of understanding temporal beings that we are able to comprehend them. Some religions have built their theology on that idea. Dave Do you think there was time before the Big Bang? By the way, why is there something rather than nothing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted August 31, 2018 Moderators Share Posted August 31, 2018 On 8/27/2018 at 3:14 PM, Schu said: While it may pacify some to think of a transition take place after death, once the spirit leaves the body and the body ceases to function, the only effect ones spirit has is on those living souls that can still remember the departed. You may creste something that outlasts your own life... like a piece of art, a piece of music or a change in ideology... and you may influence other life's (including those of other species)... but in as far as your own life, it's over. Life is for the living. Everlasting soul isn't a thing... it's just an idea. There's no captain of the ship, no one's coming back to rescue you, you are all alone. Karma does play a roll in life, but it's not as influential as many believe... good things still happen to bad people, innocent life's are ended by chance encounters and traumatic event's. What about angels, the Great Spirit, etc, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted August 31, 2018 Moderators Share Posted August 31, 2018 16 minutes ago, garyrc said: Do you think there was time before the Big Bang? By the way, why is there something rather than nothing? YES 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyrc Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 I started thinking about loop quantum cosmology. It's driving me loopy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted August 31, 2018 Moderators Share Posted August 31, 2018 Been kind of watching this, of course with no answers to either death or eternity, but I do know one thing for sure, we do not know what is really going on in any way. I say this because of something I have seen that is not supposed to happen. Only once, but once was enough to make me positively know there is more going on than we know. There IS something going on after death we don't understand. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACV92 Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 Ever had a dream to which the event happened at some point later in time? Quantum mechanics are at play, at least as interpreted. There's more. We have no idea, until it happens. Too many theories to extrapolate a unified understanding. We could simply be riding on an atom in someone's thumb, yet, feeling as though we are artificially large. Time and existence are precarious things. We may as well be riding on the Santa Maria in the phase of discovery. Sooo much to learn, such limited bandwidth. String theory, plasma universe, dark matter, black holes, etc., etc., are all notions of an uneducated mind. Until we experience it first hand, then, and only then will we know. So, yeah, is there something after? Sure, but there's something before, during, and everything in between. If anyone can truly explain the path of existence and perceptual lack there of, enlighten me. I'd love to know. My worthless bits anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 14 hours ago, garyrc said: Do you think there was time before the Big Bang? By the way, why is there something rather than nothing? Yes, but not here. Physics would suggest that "before" (meaningless in terms of our universe as there is no "before" the big bang) there were likely other "somewheres and somewhens" as there probably are now and always will be. Look up "membrane theory." As to "Two," there is "something" because there is time. There can be no time without something to age. Dave 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muel Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 On 8/27/2018 at 4:59 PM, oldtimer said: You would BE beer. You would BE everything and nothing. BE the beer ! Wow... how did my navel collect that much lint? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosco-d-gama Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 Very interesting thread. It is worth noting that as humans age they replace their cells. Literally we are entirely ‘new’ every 7 years, meaning that all of our cells at the start of that period have died and have been replaced. Of course the ‘replacement’ cells are inexact replicas as we grow so we grey and wrinkle as we age. Even though we replace all of our physical selves every 7 years our psyche somehow remains. We do not normally lose our sense of self, or identity, or our memories as we age. Then at some point we do expire. Our physical body ceases. This vessel we call a human is done. The mental ‘self’ who knows if that transcends to anywhere. This mental ‘self’ survived intact the many physical iterations we have during life - so is this premise enough to presume it has some future beyond the bounds given to it by a body? By this same set of facts what were we before we were alive? Does having a life inaugurate a soul from nothing to an eternity of purposes? Remove the empty spaces in a human body and there’s roughly a teaspoonful of atomic matter. All emotions, pains and so forth are whimsically ephemeral. Do we truly exist at all? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyrc Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 1 hour ago, Bosco-d-gama said: Very interesting thread. It is worth noting that as humans age they replace their cells. Literally we are entirely ‘new’ every 7 years, meaning that all of our cells at the start of that period have died and have been replaced. Of course the ‘replacement’ cells are inexact replicas as we grow so we grey and wrinkle as we age. Even though we replace all of our physical selves every 7 years our psyche somehow remains. We do not normally lose our sense of self, or identity, or our memories as we age. Then at some point we do expire. Our physical body ceases. This vessel we call a human is done. The mental ‘self’ who knows if that transcends to anywhere. This mental ‘self’ survived intact the many physical iterations we have during life - so is this premise enough to presume it has some future beyond the bounds given to it by a body? By this same set of facts what were we before we were alive? Does having a life inaugurate a soul from nothing to an eternity of purposes? Remove the empty spaces in a human body and there’s roughly a teaspoonful of atomic matter. All emotions, pains and so forth are whimsically ephemeral. Do we truly exist at all? After my grandfather died I had a dream of him dancing a soft shoe and singing -- to the tune "I've got rhythm" -- "Algorithm, algorithm, I don''t need anything more." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyrc Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 On 8/31/2018 at 5:37 AM, Mallette said: Yes, but not here. Physics would suggest that "before" (meaningless in terms of our universe as there is no "before" the big bang) there were likely other "somewheres and somewhens" as there probably are now and always will be. Look up "membrane theory." As to "Two," there is "something" because there is time. There can be no time without something to age. Dave Are you referring to M-theory? According to Witten, M should stand for “membrane," "magic,” or “mystery.” Hawking and Mlodinow added "miracle" and "master." A consistent master theory of everything would be nice, but H & M say that we may need different theories in different situations, each with its own version of reality, but under the canopy of model-dependent realism that's O.K. if wherever they overlap, their predictions agree (and are accurate). They say there might be 10 to the 500th sets of laws (can't do an exponent in this software). How manifold! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted September 2, 2018 Moderators Share Posted September 2, 2018 I quit worrying about it after this 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted September 2, 2018 Moderators Share Posted September 2, 2018 On 8/31/2018 at 3:55 PM, Bosco-d-gama said: Very interesting thread. It is worth noting that as humans age they replace their cells. Literally we are entirely ‘new’ every 7 years, meaning that all of our cells at the start of that period have died and have been replaced. That is a bit of a myth. It depends on the cell type and location. Some every 2 or 3 days, bone 10 years, and brain cells/neurons depends on the part of the brain, and some parts never, ever regernerate (neurogenesis). Brain damage is still something to avoid. Travis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 9 hours ago, dwilawyer said: Brain damage is still something to avoid. Stay away from Hope in the spring. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 (edited) On 8/30/2018 at 11:52 PM, dtel said: There IS something going on after death we don't understand. A lot we do. 🤔 😨 😐 On 8/30/2018 at 11:03 PM, garyrc said: I started thinking about loop quantum cosmology. It's driving me loopy. Ha! I used to think a lot about this kinda thing when I was a kid. 😎 Edited September 2, 2018 by Zen Traveler added emoticons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJkizak Posted September 2, 2018 Author Share Posted September 2, 2018 24 minutes ago, Zen Traveler said: A lot we do. 🤔 😨 😐 Ha! I used to think a lot about this kinda thing when I was a kid. 😎 It's the 4 ounces of weight that can't be accounted for after death that's very interesting. JJK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 2 hours ago, JJkizak said: 2 hours ago, Zen Traveler said: A lot we do. 🤔 😨 😐 Ha! I used to think a lot about this kinda thing when I was a kid. 😎 It's the 4 ounces of weight that can't be accounted for after death that's very interesting. JJK II still think the important thing is what you do with the 200 lbs (give or take 75 pounds for most of us) prior to death more profound.....Does it have an impact after death except in peoples memory or actions? Dunno, but I can see where karma could be a ***** for those that do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 16 hours ago, garyrc said: Are you referring to M-theory? Given the details are vague at best, the answer is most "yes." Some theorists suggest it is at the point where these "'branes" touch that singularities and "big bangs" occur to create universes as we experience this one. Dave 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosco-d-gama Posted September 3, 2018 Share Posted September 3, 2018 Research in cellular regeneration is an ongoing endeavor and more of our brains do regenerate than was previously understood. Insofar as an individualized ‘soul’ separate from a physical entity we see that animal clones do not retain character or personality traits. Your newly cloned pet will not be the same pet it was cloned from. I assume it would be the same for humans. People do not see themselves in how they interact with the environment. When we gain or lose weight much of the variance comes from gaseous co2. We pull co2 from the environment when we gain mass and add co2 to the environment when we lose mass. Gaseous carbon dioxide is actually quite heavy and humans exhale tons of the stuff. Homochirality is another scientific enigma. Amino acids are the building blocks of all life. Amino acids come in 2 physical states, one spirals leftward the other is a mirror image that spirals to the right. When we make amino acids in the lab we always get an even mix of both types but everywhere we find them in nature the ‘left’ spiral dominates. They have looked at amino acids found in comet samples and found the same disparity. When it comes to organisms practically all living things on earth are made from only left handed amino acids. Right handed amino acids exist but are rarely found in living organisms (this includes all plant life too). Science wants to know where the right handed amino acids went to and why they are incompatible with life. Theories exist but none are proven. There are lots of mysteries to be solved and many new ones yet to be defined. So far we cannot examine what occurs after death. We only know what can be witnessed in life. We do place humans in short term suspended animation for certain types of surgery. No beating heart and no circulation for quite sometime, and then we reanimate the patient. Some frogs and fish freeze solid for winter and return to life in the spring thaw. We fear death because it is an unknown and perhaps because for sometime we’ve been inculcated with the notion of a judgemental consequence for our living earthly actions. If there’s any fun to the conundrum it is in the human conscious ability to ponder it deeply. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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