Jump to content

Thoughts on bass management settings for LaScala


elee532

Recommended Posts

Just starting to get a new pair of LaScala II speakers setup in my system. I have a Denon X3400H which has Audyssey XT32. No Center. Two Rythmik subs. Pair of small Boston Acoustic bookshelves for my surrounds. Primary listening is music (lots of 5.1 surround SACD and DVD-A). Main listening area is about 18’ x 22’ with a few nooks and a staircase up to the second floor. 

 

First run of audyssey set fronts and rears to small with 60Hz crossover for the LaScala and 40Hz for the surrounds. Needless to say, this surprised me. 

 

I’ve always been kind of disappointed in the amount of “midbass slam” from my system. I’m hoping for a bit more from the LaScala and curious what folks might recommend for bass management settings?

 

Large or small?

If small, what crossover level?

LFE  + Main?

LPF for LFE at 120Hz or higher?

 

I also just bought the Audyssey app, so I can mess around with the curve. I’ve never done this before though. Any thoughts on settings here?

 

BTW, I attached the first try at correction results for the front left speaker.

 

 

45802E8D-C25B-4DDA-BA5C-66103F30829D.png

Edited by elee532
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, elee532 said:

Any thoughts on settings here? 

 

BTW, I attached the first try at correction results for the front left speaker. 

 

 

45802E8D-C25B-4DDA-BA5C-66103F30829D.png

That dip at 2 kHz (I don't know the vertical axis scale that you posted because they're cut off, but I'm assuming that the vertical axis is 10 dB/division) looks bigger and wider after Audyssey than before.  I'd turn off any "BBC dip" or other 1.8-2.2 kHz dip settings that may be controllable within the version of Audyssey that you own. 

 

Chris

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don't know about in a LaScala but in a MWM a K33 goes lower than a K43. 

Yes k33 goes lower but k43 known for handling more power and people including me noticed a really beefy lower mid range if I’m saying that correctly. I liked it a lot


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, elee532 said:

 

45802E8D-C25B-4DDA-BA5C-66103F30829D.png

Also, it looks like the bass has been rolled off below 110 Hz.  That's something that I'd recommend undoing to regain the apparent free response down to 57 Hz (i.e., one octave of performance), and add one negative PEQ at about 57 Hz of high "Q" (low bandwidth) to smooth that peak. 

 

This is of course a function of the smoothing of the frequency response curve in the above plot.  It may be that the curve smoothing shows extended response down to 57 Hz that's actually very spotty/peaky that 's not really able to correct to a smooth frequency response result. 

 

[You might gather that I have a few issues with what Audyssey does on its own...and you'd be right...I prefer using a parametric EQ upstream of the amplifier (like in a DSP crossover) to correct these sort of issues--and using REW to help optimize the PEQ filters to achieve flat response.  Audyssey also doesn't provide you a phase plot (IIRC), which is also not very admirable behavior.] 

 

Chris

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have stock LS2's with a single Rythmik F12-G sub.  The settings will depend a lot on your room.  In my case, for 2-channel listening, I run the LS2's full-range (not through an AVR) and set the crossover on the sub to 80hz/24.  I have a large room null at 52hz, and I find crossing the sub at 80hz helps minimize this hole as best as possible - along with helping the LS2's low-end.   I have a room node at 31hz that I try to flatten out with the Rythmik's built-in PEQ filter.  I digitally apply a convolution filter to mildly reduce some bass nodes/humps and boost the treble slightly.

 

For 5.1 movies, I run all speakers set to small, crossed at 80hz, and send the bass below 80hz, along with the LFE channel, to the sub which is also crossed at 80/24.  Not sure what effect have both crossovers on the AVR and sub have, but it sounds good.  I leave it this way because I'm mostly 2-channel.  If you are doing mostly 5.1, then you can set the Rythmik's crossover to AVR/12 and turn the crossover knob as high as it will go because the AVR will handle all the crossover duties.

 

I have a really old AVR so I don't have a lot of options or any sort of built-in room correction.   If Audyssey tells you to cross them at 60hz, that doesn't sound unreasonable.  In general, I would apply the mildest, least-aggressive room correction first, just to get you in the right ballpark, then manually (gently) tweak it to your liking.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, elee532 said:

Sorry, I’m not sure what this means. Can you say more? Thanks!

If Audyssey will not provide you with the ability to tailor its equalization settings in the bass bands, then I recommend using a parametric equalizer upstream of your preamplifier or in your music player (if it's a desktop/laptop computer, for instance) to replace the "bass management" of Audyssey with a simple attenuating filter set at about 57 Hz and with a bandwidth of about 0.2 octave.  That will give you back your bass response that Audyssey seems to have taken away.

 

Chris

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 hours ago, Maximus89 said:

Swap the k33 for a k43 :)

 

4 hours ago, elee532 said:

 

Pardon my ignorance, but what are these? Thanks!

 

The K-33 is the 15" woofer in your La Scala II. The K-43 is the 15" woofer with higher power handling and slightly different frequency response, that was in the Industrial La Scala and some other Pro Klipsch speakers. Swapping out woofers may be a fun project for some of us, but might be more than you need to adjust your system.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 9/4/2018 at 11:32 AM, Khornukopia said:

 

 

Swapping out woofers may be a fun project for some of us, but might be more than you need to adjust your system.

 

I do like a good DIY project. This might be the perfect project in a year or two when the next upgrade~itis bug bites. 😁

Link to comment
Share on other sites

An explanation of the BBC Dip: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/34354-bbc-dip.html#post397088

 

and a somewhat rambling and less-than-focused discussion of this phenomenon (which misses the mismatch of polar coverages at the crossover point):

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The phrase "80/24" is (I believe) 80 Hz crossover point from the main loudspeakers to the subwoofer, and the "24" looks to be a crossover filter slope of 24 dB/octave on both the front loudspeakers and the subwoofer channels.

 

The term "convolution filter" is a bit more complicated.  Just regard it as a type of digital crossover filter that compensates for some peaks and valleys in the bass band.

 

An attenuating filter reduces the output level of the input signal in a certain range of frequencies.  A boosting filter increases the amplitude of a range of frequencies.

 

The term AVR/12 is apparently a term used by some AV receiver manufacturer to denote a crossover filter with 12 dB/octave slopes, and that the crossover filter in built into an AVR instead of a passive or DSP (active) crossover filter set.

 

Chris

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...