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U. S. Open - 2018


Jeff Matthews

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25 minutes ago, joshnich said:

Glad you’re having fun with the game. It is a great game. It sounds like you are discovering the benefits of movement. Yes Rafa has power - but there are many players who hit with more power. His best trait is his defensive ability - based on his movement and anticipation. It’s no secret that the player who gets the ball over the net and in the court on the last point is the winner. 

I have played doubles in a couple of pro ams with retired pros. And the anticipation was the most eye opening aspect of their game. I played a pro am 30 years ago with Fred Stolle - a top Australian pro who in addition to many major doubles titles also won the singles title at the French. We played against the great Roy Emerson, Rod Laver and Ken Rosewall. As well as the really good Tom Okker ( US open finalist) Marty Riesen ( US pro champion). I still remember being side by side at the net with Fred and getting passed by Okker. My instincts told me the point was over. But low and behold, Fred Stolle who was standing aside me when Okker hit the shot was now at the back fence putting up a defensive lob - I couldn’t believe it! If you look at the the greats, they all were or are great defensive players and great movers. Borg, Laver, Mac, Emerson etc. There are the exceptions. Perhaps the greatest player who gets little recognition because he turned pro early and therefore did not compete at the majors until he was in his 40s was Pancho Gonzales. In conversations with Laver, Emerson , Stolle and more - Pancho was the best they played against. And he was all power. 

For pro men the average point is 5.5 hits. For  women I believe it is 4.5. Rafas  success is based on his ability to have his opponent hit one more ball. A successful model no matter what level you are playing. If you move as well as you say, a defensive game is the ticket to success. Way more points are won on errors than winners - even at the top of the game. 

If you are competing against 4.5 players after such a short time of playing you are obviously a superior athlete. In my leagues there have been many ex college players at the 4.5 level.

One of my regular hitting partners was a ranked junior in CA and when he got back into the game after raising kids etc, played 4.0 in USTA for two years before advancing to 4.5. To be fair he has played in the nationals at the 4.5 level. At that level - at least in NorCal - can consistanly hit forcing shots of both sides. Flat and powerful forehand and the ability to hit slice and top on his backhand. Powerful serve and biting volleys.  He played D1 college baseball as a shortstop and catcher so he is also a superior athlete. He is also the only 60 year I know that takes advantage of the tread warranty on his tennis shoes, So yes he still moves! 

 

Enjoy this great game!

 

 

Very impressive. 

 

I think there's a lot of talent in pro tennis right now. Of course we are about to lose my favorite player ever to retirement.....Roger Federer. He is deceptively quick, and plays the game very cool. I think he's a classy guy.

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35 minutes ago, joshnich said:

I have played doubles in a couple of pro ams with retired pros. And the anticipation was the most eye opening aspect of their game. I played a pro am 30 years ago with Fred Stolle...

Wow!  Great story!  You are vastly more experienced and could help me with some tips.

 

35 minutes ago, joshnich said:

If you move as well as you say, a defensive game is the ticket to success.

I'm pretty sure I do move as well as I say.  I mean, I haven't actually run against Nadal (obviously), but my opponents are usually shocked at how much I can cover the court and still return the ball back to the other side with pretty good control.  I can usually hear their comments as I chase a ball down, like, "Oh, wow!  You're going for that one?  Wow!  You got to it!  Incredible!"  Stuff like that.  It really is my strongest point, and that's why it's the funnest part for me.  Plus, it's a hell of a work-out to sprint like that.  Believe me, even though I can run, I still get gassed and just keep on running.  I like to play hard.

 

35 minutes ago, joshnich said:

If you are competing against 4.5 players after such a short time of playing you are obviously a superior athlete.

I think I am.  I don't ask these guys how they are rated or anything.  I just compare their play to what I see on 4.5 matches all over Youtube.  The guys that make it to the finals will beat me; I am just saying I am at the point where I think I can respectably hang with them.

 

I don't claim to be a "superior" athlete, but I have always been athletic.  I have decent coordination, can run fast and stop on a dime.  My sport of choice has always been basketball, so it's not like I started 5 months ago with no foundation.  Just as basketball requires hook-shots, lay-ups, scoop-shots, fade-aways, etc., you can see how those movements translate over to tennis with some minor modification due to having to hold a racket.

 

Last night, I played this young guy who I see training all the time.  He had a crushing forehand with gobs of top spin.  My foot speed wasn't enough.  When his shot hit the ground in my court, it would lurch up and forward, fast and high.  I was trying hard to make adjustments for that, and to some extent, I got a little better, but he was whooping my tail pretty bad.  He had me playing 4 feet behind the baseline toward the end, and that was the adjustment of which I speak.  But that's too far back to give me a chance. 

 

This guy had no serve and couldn't run like me.  I need to keep a guy like that running hard, or else...  I agree, defense is a good strategy, but against a crushing forehand like that, I don't think it would ever be enough.

 

I am thinking about going and buying a basket and a bunch of balls and going to the court to develop a similar forehand.  I need that in my arsenal.  

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15 minutes ago, Jeff Matthews said:

I have decent coordination, can run fast and stop on a dime.  My sport of choice has always been basketba

Basketball and tennis are a great combo. Remember John Lucas the nba player? He played pro tennis as well. He was on the Golden Gaters - one of the original world team tennis teams. Again the movement and ability to pivot etc from basketball translate well to tennis. Marty Riesen , mentioned in my previous post, was an all American college basketball player as well. I believe his father was the basketball coach at Northwestern. 

It does require a subscription, but there is lots and lots of really good information on tennisplayer.net.  Lots of videos of current and past greats from multiple angles. Also lots of great instruction information from top coaches. 

 

J

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54 minutes ago, joshnich said:

Remember John Lucas the nba player? He played pro tennis as well. He was on the Golden Gaters - one of the original world team tennis teams.

Of course, I do!  He was a Houston Rocket, and I am a native Houstonian.  Been here almost all my life.  I forgot all about his tennis career, but now that you mention it, it does seem to ring a bell.  That was quite a long time ago.  Back then, I had no interest in tennis at all, so anything "tennis" to me would be just spouting off the top 10 or so most renowned players. 

 

Nice photos!  Woodforde (looked him up) is almost 3 years older than me.  I'm 50.

 

Are you all still playing?

 

 

 

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There really isn't much on Youtube to show what Men's 50+ singles regional/national finals looks like.  Maybe you know.  Can you spot some videos on Youtube of the type of play?  It doesn't matter if the video shows younger players.  I just would like to see what 50+ regional/national would look like.  I know I'm nowhere close, but I wonder what the gap is like.

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26 minutes ago, Jeff Matthews said:

Are you all still playing?

I just turned 65 ( those photos are from 20 years ago) and am recently recovering from a ruptured Achilles and a ruptured tendon in my elbow. So I haven’t played USTA league in a few years. I knew my days were numbered when I was playing number 1 singles on my 4.0 team and ended up playing a guy who was around 20 years old. I asked him if he was in college and he replied “ I was in college but I’ve taken a year off to focus on tennis!” Yikes! 

So with my arm issue and my Achilles I don’t play many matches. The Achilles has recovered but my elbow is still an issue for serving. I do get out a least once a week to hit. More of a workout than anything. I’ll hit for a couple of hours with my pro or with my son - who hits the crap out of the ball. 

A couple of tips for you 

it is obvious , but the most important strokes in tennis are the serve and the service return. The good news is that you can work on your serve all by yourself. Placement and consistency are more important than power. Work on both first and second serves. Don’t go all out on your first serve , instead go for placement and and target your opponents backhand virtually 100% of the time. People will say to hit to the forehand on occasion to keep your opponent guessing but I disagree. Data will Support that approach. 

Your first serve is only as good as your second serve. So make sure you have a second serve that you can count on getting into the court virtually 100% of the time. A side bar story ...years ago on the very young pro tennis tour. Pancho Gonzalez was dominating the tour and was winnng virtually every tournament. In an effort to equalize the playing field a promoter staged a pro tournament that allowed for only one serve. Pancho won the event without having his serve broken. He could go so big on his first serve because his second serve was so good. 

In regards to your return. ... you just need to put it in play. Don’t go big on the return play the defensive percentages and just get it in. Watch the multiple Wimbledon finals between Rodrick and Fed. Roddick was a dominate server. Fed would just block the serve back into the open court  frustrating Andy and not allowing him to get free points with one whack. 

I could talk tennis all day. It is a magnificent game and one you can cont use to play for a long time - injuries not withstanding! 

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4 minutes ago, joshnich said:

Placement and consistency are more important than power.

Thanks for this particular advice.  It is coincidental that you gave it because I had thought a little more about how to play the guy with the crushing forearm.  I said I need to develop a similar forearm to keep him running, but I had second thoughts after I posted it.  I think a better approach is short placement to make him charge the net.  He can't square up for a crushing forearm and would just have to tap at it, more or less.  That's where I use my speed to give me a shot that if I just place it, he can't get to.  Anyway, that's my take.  I think about strategy a lot because I want to improve.

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I’m not sure you can find the match on you tube.  But the tactic you describe - hitting a short ball that forces the opponent to move forward and hit a forehand from mid court- was used to perfection when Manolo Orantes beat conners in the finals of the 1975 us open finals. It is the tactic that fed used to beat Rodick as well. In fact Stolle told me that he won the French by using a short sliced backhand that forced the opponent to move forward and hit a floater back. In other words good thinking! 

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5 minutes ago, joshnich said:

In other words good thinking!

Thanks!

 

The beauty of the whole thing is that I am seeing it takes different strategies against different opponents.  For example, last Saturday, I played a guy who was just killing me at the net.  He'd make me chase down deep shots to the sides for the "miracle saves," which were invariably headed too softly at him as he'd wait at the net.  I had played him twice before and told him straight-up, "All I need to do is keep you away from the net."  So, this last Saturday, I came back with some more power in the forearm.  I was making the same, great saves, but I was sending them back deeper.  It was hard work, to say the least, but I beat him a few games.  He acknowledged the noticeable improvement.

 

So, the net guy needs to be kept back, and the power guy needs to be kept closer.   It keeps it interesting.

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