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Brac

In-ceiling installation of KL-6502 for Heritage HT (So much for Klipsch tech support)

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I remember the days I would talk to someone that KNEW stuff. Haven't had need to call in a good while, first the system kept repeating it message would then ring and say your first in line, wait awhile and it would do the same, "now you're really first in line"   The girl that answered wouldn't know a speaker from a hole in the ground.  

 

Pretty Piss Poor and Sad.

 

For the record the question was. "I am installing a set of KL-6502's as rear surrounds in a Heritage HT, the ceiling joist run parallel to the sitting area. Is there any need to acoustically seperate the 2 spaces.   

 

The answer was, "doesn't say anything about that here (on whatever simple screen she was looking at) so it's totally fine.  

Edited by Chad
edited title for clarity
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As much as I hate to say it your right. 

 

As just a guess, I would think it would make no difference separated or not. But it's only a complete guess. 

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How close are you putting the speakers?

 

Reasonable spacing, you shouldn't need to do anything.

 

When working for a company, most folks would rather say "I don't know" than state something they could get fired for.  That is not a normal question and if doing installs, if you thought you might need a way to isolate the speakers, you would likely buy the additional hardware, like if the ceiling is covered with fiberglass or blown insulation.

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no insulation in the space, speakers are to be 9 feet apart. As I understand "In-wall" the design using the created space as the enclosure, which is the reason for my question.

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20 minutes ago, Brac said:

no insulation in the space, speakers are to be 9 feet apart. As I understand "In-wall" the design using the created space as the enclosure, which is the reason for my question.

Let me get this straight, as I had to read your question a couple of times.  You put in-wall speakers in the ceiling?

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I haven't put them yet, but that's the plan. Some difference between in wall and in ceiling?  KL-6502-THX

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They can't afford to put an acoustical engineer on duty as an operator would be my guess.  In a perfect world your call would have been routed to someone who specializes in installation.  The first person who you spoke to should have been triaging the calls and getting you to the right department, not answering your question.

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19 minutes ago, Brac said:

I haven't put them yet, but that's the plan. Some difference between in wall and in ceiling?  KL-6502-THX

I was just about to edit my answer, but you're too fast!  I wanted to clarify "why" I asked the question.  I'm not being critical, I just wanted to think along with you.

+++

 

First of all those are awesome looking speakers!  A pair of 5" woofers in an MTM configuration.  Your initial description of your question got me wondering, do they need an enclosure or will they work "open air" so to speak. 

 

My common sense says "yes" they need an enclosure for the woofers to work as designed, but my other common sense says those are much more robust looking than an ordinary round ceiling speaker.

 

My answer to that question is "I don't know." 

 

My guess is they would be superior to a simple mono or even a co-axial speaker.  I know rear surrounds don't play that much content compared to the L/C/R but I might be a little concerned about off-axis coverage.  I'm thinking out loud here, as off-axis performance can't be that big a deal even if it's not theoretically ideal.

 

This is just me, again thinking out loud, but I might hook them up as a L/R in the front open air and see how they sound. 

 

I actually already did that with my RS-62's because I wanted to hear they sounded when not doing their job as side surrounds.  They sounded OK but not spectacular, but I used an older receiver and I might blame it for the rather flat sound.

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4 minutes ago, wvu80 said:

Your initial description of your question got me wondering, do they need an enclosure or will they work "open air" so to speak. 

They are designed to be in an Infinite Baffle configuration, so no enclosure is needed.

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19 minutes ago, CECAA850 said:

They are designed to be in an Infinite Baffle configuration, so no enclosure is needed.

 

If you would have said that earlier it would have saved me a bunch of "what if'ing!"  :lol:

+++

 

Edit:  And expanding on your comment ^^^ if they are designed to be used in an Infinite Baffle configuration, that better answers @Brac 's original question "Is there any need to acoustically separate the 2 spaces."  It sounds like the answer is "no."

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17 minutes ago, wvu80 said:

 

If you would have said that earlier it would have saved me a bunch of "what if'ing!"  :lol:

It's good to exercise your brain when you get to an advanced age;) 

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17 hours ago, Brac said:

The answer was, "doesn't say anything about that here (on whatever simple screen she was looking at) so it's totally fine.  

This actually could be thought of as good advice.  If that was critical and needed to be done, it should have been mentioned somewhere in the specs or installation procedure.

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22 minutes ago, CECAA850 said:

They are designed to be in an Infinite Baffle configuration, so no enclosure is needed.

 

Well, that brings me to his suggestion of try them in open air.   I'll report back in a bit.

 

Thanks

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Just now, Brac said:

 

Well, that brings me to his suggestion of try them in open air.   I'll report back in a bit.

 

Thanks

Open air and infinite baffle are 2 different things.  The drivers will see it as the same load and excursion but it will sound completely different to the listener.

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3 minutes ago, CECAA850 said:

It's good to exercise your brain when you get to an advanced age;) 

 

I'm 62.  When I need my brain exercised, I'll take it for a walk.  :lol:

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2 minutes ago, CECAA850 said:

Open air and infinite baffle are 2 different things.  The drivers will see it as the same load and excursion but it will sound completely different to the listener.

Technically you're right, but I wouldn't think an infinite baffle (ie attic sized space) would create much back pressure for a couple of 5" woofers.  When I think Infinite Baffle I think of guys mounting 18 or 21 inch subs in their ceilings.  To me that is an Infinite Baffle design!

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8 minutes ago, wvu80 said:

Technically you're right, but I wouldn't think an infinite baffle (ie attic sized space) would create much back pressure for a couple of 5" woofers.  When I think Infinite Baffle I think of guys mounting 18 or 21 inch subs in their ceilings.  To me that is an Infinite Baffle design!

Neither one will have any pressure on the drivers BUT will sound different to the listener.  On an IB the back wave is totally isolated from the wave of the driver.  All you hear is the front wave.  Putting those speakers in open air (like a living room) will allow you to hear reflections from the back of the speakers as it bounces around the room as well as the front wave.

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I think a picture is needed to define parallel separation in this situation ?

The Klipsch download manual info seems to have sufficient at 4 pages for english with the adjustable components.

 

 

 

KL-6502.jpg

KL-65-2 rear.jpg

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19 minutes ago, windashine said:

I think a picture is needed to define parallel separation in this situation ?

I could certainly be wrong but I think he's referring to the fact that they'll be in the same joist space and was wondering if the 2 back waves from the different speakers need to be isolated from each other.  If that's indeed the case, it's a non issue.  For me the bigger issue would be preventing insulation from getting into the back side of the drivers.

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yes, a bigger issue, back side protection, albeit plastic sheet or foam, for water leaks or dust, which would have no effect on the sound in the room

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