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Choosing the right power amp ???


Cass99

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Hi guys, I have klipsch reference premier 5.1.4 surround system, powered by a denon avr X6400H. I’m planning on adding a power amp to drive my 280F fronts & would appreciate any advice/pros & cons on these 3 power amps I’ve been looking at to match with my system. Or other power amp options in the $500-$1200 dollar range.  I have my speakers listed below. thx’s 

 

Power amps 

niles SI-2150

marantz mm7025

parasound 2125 v 2 

 

Klipsch

2 RP-280F 

2 RP-250S 
1 RP-450C 
1 R-115SW 
4 RP-140SA 
 
 
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@Cass99,

 

Welcome to the forum.

 

4 hours ago, Cass99 said:

Power amps 

niles SI-2150

marantz mm7025

parasound 2125 v 2 

No experience with the Niles so no comment but the Marantz and Parasound should do a fine job.  Maybe look also at a used B&K Reference 200.2 or EX4420/Ref 4420, Acurus A200, Anthem MCA-2 or MCA-20 if you want a bit more power.  Many good choices in that price range, used or new.

 

Bill

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If I were in your shoes I would be looking at either a 3 channel amp, to handle the 3 main speakers or a 5 channel amp to add the main surrounds.

 

You have an awesome receiver but having a dedicated amp will help free up some juice for your other channels. Just a thought.

 

You have a killer system, BTW! 

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5 hours ago, Cass99 said:

would appreciate any advice/pros & cons on these 3 power amps I’ve been looking at to match with my system.

Welcome to the Klipsch forums.

 

I have an Emotiva XPA-5 200 wpc powering my L/C/R and there is much more headroom and dynamics than with my 110 wpc Onk 717 AVR.  I don't have any experience with the three amps you listed.  Your Denon 6400 is substantial so you might not hear as a dramatic of an improvement as I did with my Onk.  Still, the advantages of an external amp with a 5.2.4 setup should be noticeable. 

 

Not to your wife of course but I think you will hear a difference.  B)

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If that were my budget and I was amp shopping, I would seriously be considering this:

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15594&gclid=CjwKCAjw8uLcBRACEiwAaL6MSY235eakbsPDg7XI2MztGez5R_9rnLpwcRkEPzlWJZgujN9AjildJRoCWMwQAvD_BwE

 

The Monolith amps sure are getting high praise on the other audio forums.

 

If you are shopping Paradound amplifiers, a member here is a dealer.. Contact MetropolisLakeOutfitters and he can get you great pricing. 

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Hi guys, thx u for welcoming me to the forum. I definitely have some very good advice to think about before purchasing my power amp. The only other ? that I have now is about continuous power. My front speakers L-R-C are rated at 150 watts continuous power. I noticed some of the suggested power amps have a continuous power rating of 200-350 watts per channel. If I went with one of these amps, would the amp fry/mess up my front speakers? 

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5 hours ago, K5SS said:

If that were my budget and I was amp shopping, I would seriously be considering this:

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15594&gclid=CjwKCAjw8uLcBRACEiwAaL6MSY235eakbsPDg7XI2MztGez5R_9rnLpwcRkEPzlWJZgujN9AjildJRoCWMwQAvD_BwE

 

The Monolith amps sure are getting high praise on the other audio forums.

 

If you are shopping Paradound amplifiers, a member here is a dealer.. Contact MetropolisLakeOutfitters and he can get you great pricing. 

Right now there are several Monolith models offered at a discount as B-Stock too! https://www.monoprice.com/search/index?keyword=monolith &sort=sellingPrice desc

 

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28 minutes ago, Cass99 said:

My front speakers L-R-C are rated at 150 watts continuous power. I noticed some of the suggested power amps have a continuous power rating of 200-350 watts per channel. If I went with one of these amps, would the amp fry/mess up my front speakers? 

No.  Your very efficient Klipsch speakers will never see those 200-350 watts/channel during 99% of your listening sessions.  Unless, someone gets crazy stupid with the volume knob.

You may hit peaks near the 150w/ch region but under most conditions probably around 80w/ch.

http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

 

Bill

 

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I just checked the efficiency of your front speakers, 98db. You will need 10 clean class A watts or less. And yes I have seen most every chart my whole life on power needs but what I have recently found out is that a CD has a dynamic range of only 10 db. Your speakers will use 1 watt average or less for most any volume in a normal room. Easy to verify if you have a voltmeter. Do not get fooled into the lie of more is better. 

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2 hours ago, wdecho said:

I just checked the efficiency of your front speakers, 98db. You will need 10 clean class A watts or less. And yes I have seen most every chart my whole life on power needs but what I have recently found out is that a CD has a dynamic range of only 10 db. Your speakers will use 1 watt average or less for most any volume in a normal room. Easy to verify if you have a voltmeter. Do not get fooled into the lie of more is better. 

I have 102db efficient KLF-30's and I have used a 35 wpc Technics receiver, a 120 wpc Technics integrated amp, a 150 wpc Emotiva amp, an Emotiva 300 wpc amp and now my 500 wpc Emotiva XPA-1 monoblocks....and with every step up I got better performance out of the speakers. Can you run a 10 wpc amp through them....sure you can. Can you make two twelve inch woofers come to life and put the bass through your chest with that same 10 wpc amp?....NO. 

 

If the quality of the power you are using is good, the speakers will sound better with more power than they do with less power.

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9 hours ago, teaman said:

 

If the quality of the power you are using is good, the speakers will sound better with more power than they do with less power.

I disagree. Yes the bass does sound better with more power in some cases but mids are what is important to me. I also have quality 300 watt per channel amplifiers but right now I am listening to and enjoying my 5 watt SET more than using all that power. Class A is what sounds best to me and you are limited to, being practical, 25 watts are less. When you are talking 100 watts or more class A watts you get into serious money. You may need to listen to a really good SET tube amp or class A SS and see what great mids sound like. Then it can depend of your preference in music as well. If hard rock and that type of music is one's preference more power may sound best. Full of distortion anyways. Many spend thousands of dollars for a SET amplifier with only 5 watts. Ever wonder why? If a 5 watt SET is not enough power for a horn speaker what would it ever be good for. Take a measurement of the power you are using at your speaker when listening at the loudest level you would ever listen at and be shocked and surprised. Simple to do using a AC voltmeter and ohms law. Just put in the peak AC reading of your meter and the resistance of your speaker, typically 8 ohms. You may have 300 watts but I bet only using 5 watts peak. Advertisement and hype sells but figures do not lie. 

http://www.ohmslawcalculator.com/ohms-law-calculator

 

I used a Crown DC-300 for over 20 years with 200 watts per channel until I discovered class A. 

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5 hours ago, wdecho said:
I disagree. Yes the bass does sound better with more power in some cases but mids are what is important to me. I also have quality 300 watt per channel amplifiers but right now I am listening to and enjoying my 5 watt SET more than using all that power. Class A is what sounds best to me and you are limited to, being practical, 25 watts are less. When you are talking 100 watts or more class A watts you get into serious money. You may need to listen to a really good SET tube amp or class A SS and see what great mids sound like. Then it can depend of your preference in music as well. If hard rock and that type of music is one's preference more power may sound best. Full of distortion anyways. Many spend thousands of dollars for a SET amplifier with only 5 watts. Ever wonder why? If a 5 watt SET is not enough power for a horn speaker what would it ever be good for. Take a measurement of the power you are using at your speaker when listening at the loudest level you would ever listen at and be shocked and surprised. Simple to do using a AC voltmeter and ohms law. Just put in the peak AC reading of your meter and the resistance of your speaker, typically 8 ohms. You may have 300 watts but I bet only using 5 watts peak. Advertisement and hype sells but figures do not lie. 
http://www.ohmslawcalculator.com/ohms-law-calculator
 
I used a Crown DC-300 for over 20 years with 200 watts per channel until I discovered class A. 

 


The fact that you are comparing your Class A amp to a Crown says everything I need to know about why you didn’t like the sound. I have used a 300 wpc Crown myself and it sounded
horrible. The fact that I owned Gen 2 Emotiva XPA 1 monoblocks with the first 50 watts in Pure Class A cannot be compared to a Crown.

I listen to all kinds of music. Right now I have the Canadian band Lights playing in one system. Fuel playing in another system. Stone Sour in another and The Baby’s playing in another lets you know my musical taste is pretty varied, even though they would all classify as rock or pop bands. The midrange is amazing through my amps and the bass pounds. Even my basic Emotiva UPA-2 would blow most Crown amps out of the water.

You are free to enjoy your 5 watt amp but I would tell you that until you drive your speaker’s with a good SS amp, you have no idea what you are missing. At my house I didn’t even like my Crown to power subs so I sold it off long ago.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

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=== agree, and disagree with both. Yes, 2,3,5,8 watt SET amps sound great with most Klipsch, I’ve had them all. But I found with KHorns and Jubes they ran out of steam if you wanted to play “ loud”. But they can power LaScalla very nicely, and loud. I totally agree with Class A SS amps, my favorite. And yes these too run out of steam with 5-8 Watts. Kick it up tp 25 + Class A watts and - now you’re talkin’ —

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I am fortunate to have over 20 amplifiers, class A SS and tube, class D and at least 1 A/B. A/B is my least favorite form of amplification. The only A/B I have running now is a Gainclone and it does sound nice but still not class A. I could live with it. The newer class D amplifiers will kill the market for A/B's in the near future. I have 5 or 6 class D amplifiers the best being the newer Texas Instruments TPA3255 of which I have two of. Something like 300 watts per channel but I still prefer class A. A SET tube amplifier is still the best sounding all around in my world. There are very few on this forum that have multiple kinds of amplifiers to do a reasonable A/B comparison. Ohms law does not lie and if one is not using on peaks more than a few watts with horn speakers I do not see how all that wasted power will help the sound a bit. More like damping factor and other specs come into play than extra wasted power. Class D has the best bass of all classes I have heard and I do not think it has anything to do with more than 20 watts with our speakers. I have no problem with someone buying a Ferrari to drive 50 mph to the store though. Nelson Pass in his audition room with full range speakers has watt meters hooked to the output of his amplifiers and anyone that is lucky enough to visit will never see more than 5 watts on peaks in a large test room. The full range speakers he use are something like 95db efficiency. It is either BS or the laws or physics is wrong, at least the laws as we now understand them. If a more powerful amplifier sounds best during an A/B comparison it is the design of the amplifier and not the wasted power using horn speakers. I test my 300 watt TPA3255 for watts used with the music extremely loud and measure just a few watts used. It still sound better in some ways over other amplifiers in the quickness and fantastic bass but not because of the extra wasted power. It is type of amplification and how the circuit is designed. All I can say to unbelievers is to measure the peaks of power used when listening extremely loud and explain how the extra wasted power not being used contributes to better sound. 

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On 9/13/2018 at 12:58 PM, wdecho said:

I am fortunate to have over 20 amplifiers, class A SS and tube, class D and at least 1 A/B. A/B is my least favorite form of amplification. The only A/B I have running now is a Gainclone and it does sound nice but still not class A. I could live with it. The newer class D amplifiers will kill the market for A/B's in the near future. I have 5 or 6 class D amplifiers the best being the newer Texas Instruments TPA3255 of which I have two of. Something like 300 watts per channel but I still prefer class A. A SET tube amplifier is still the best sounding all around in my world. There are very few on this forum that have multiple kinds of amplifiers to do a reasonable A/B comparison. Ohms law does not lie and if one is not using on peaks more than a few watts with horn speakers I do not see how all that wasted power will help the sound a bit. More like damping factor and other specs come into play than extra wasted power. Class D has the best bass of all classes I have heard and I do not think it has anything to do with more than 20 watts with our speakers. I have no problem with someone buying a Ferrari to drive 50 mph to the store though. Nelson Pass in his audition room with full range speakers has watt meters hooked to the output of his amplifiers and anyone that is lucky enough to visit will never see more than 5 watts on peaks in a large test room. The full range speakers he use are something like 95db efficiency. It is either BS or the laws or physics is wrong, at least the laws as we now understand them. If a more powerful amplifier sounds best during an A/B comparison it is the design of the amplifier and not the wasted power using horn speakers. I test my 300 watt TPA3255 for watts used with the music extremely loud and measure just a few watts used. It still sound better in some ways over other amplifiers in the quickness and fantastic bass but not because of the extra wasted power. It is type of amplification and how the circuit is designed. All I can say to unbelievers is to measure the peaks of power used when listening extremely loud and explain how the extra wasted power not being used contributes to better sound. 

 

 

William's assertions are correct.  My views on power requirements for many Klipsch speakers are well known.  It comes down to listening level- 70 db requires less power than 100 db.  I doubt that anyone can argue that point.  I will refer once again to my prior thread in which I presented a link to a DIY Audio discussion on how to determine how much power is needed with a very high degree of accuracy using a simple multimeter.  I was accused by many of proselytizing for flea power- yet, those same folks did not present their measurements to support their point of view that much higher power is needed.  If someone can show me how 500 wpc is needed to run K-horns at a maximum peak level of 90 db I will certainly be interested.

 

https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/170414-who-wants-to-measure-how-much-power-voltage-is-really-needed/

 

 

Maynard

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Headroom from a QUALITY amp is never a bad thing.   Makes dynamics come alive and the damping factor is often much higher due to larger power supply.  I can understand up to double a rated RMS of a speaker.   Standard pro practice for live sound.   Five times over.... I doubt you will be able to gain stage your gear well and will have trouble setting a proper listening level.  

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  • 1 month later...

Hi everyone 👋

 

I want to say thank you & shout outs.... for all the help I got from everyone in the forum who gave me some input on my power amp question, the forums feedback was very helpful to me in making my final choice. 

 

Klipsch RP HT system 

2 RP-280F 

2 RP-250S 

1 RP-450C 

1 R-115SW - retired

4 RP-140SA 

Denon AVR X6400H

 

I Added these 4 pieces since my last post. 

Marantz hd-dac1

2 SVS sb2000 subs

Sunfire five cinema grand power amp

 

I made some changes, retiring my klipsch sw115, & adding dual svs sb2000 subs & I noticed a immediate difference in my system 👍👍 for the better with the 2 subs. Then I ended up adding a sunfire five cinema grand power amp, which has my klipsch rp speakers sounding awesome. Also I added a marantz CD player. Whether it’s music, movies, or television shows my speakers sound a whole lot better after adding the power amp & sealed subs. It’s basically like listening to brand new speakers, which is awesome in my opinion. For now my home theater system is complete 😁

I’m glad I joined the klipsch forum. 

Thanks again guys for all the help 👍👍

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