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Teacher Question about Netiquette


mangofirst

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So I want to get my 8th grade English and Language Arts kiddos familiar with and (crossing my fingers and toes) interested in discussion of any type. I use Google Classroom in class, which now provides a "stream" tab in addition to the "classwork" one. Apparently you can use it as a sort of discussion board. But many of my kids are unsure of everything they do, so my test runs haven't gone so well.

 

I think with a bit more structure, it would be an excellent tool to teach them conversation skills as well as civilized debate. I read this suggestion for some ground rules and I like it, but I wanted to get some more input...from real forum participants. Looking forward to some useful (and I'm sure a few hilarious) suggestions.

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I read the 'read' and hesitate posting beyond knowing if I'm going to get my mouth washed out or a whoopin'.... which make's discussion's civil, everyone should have a public speaking degree... no more than 3 paragraphs at a time...and a subject which remains' friendly, with a touch of jalapeno tossed in....

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49 minutes ago, Rivernuggets said:

One thing I always think of with internet decency is, type material that you would be comfortable saying to someone in person.

 

Are the kids allowed to be anonymous? A user name instead of their real name might create some bravery.

I second this motion.

 

Bu I would say don't post it if you wouldn't say it to the principal. 

 

Are emoticons Available?  They can help convey a "tone of voice" which is absent in some text, and can help avoid misinterpretation. But over use can stunt the development of written expression skills. On second thought, since it is a Language Arts class, emoticons should probably be suppressed.

 

JBCODD

Edited by JBCODD
Second thoughts
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Some ideas that come to mind:

 

1) Creating the right environment seems to be the real problem.  The means that the students are incentivized to join in the subjects chosen, which are neither too polarizing nor dominated by pat answers, i.e., thinking on the subject is required before responding. 

 

On this forum (K-forum) the participants come and discuss topics because of their enjoyment of the subject matter, such as audio, how-to Q&A, general banter (which is also the source of misunderstandings and flame wars), and discussion of current news events.  The latter type of threads are typically dominated by what you read on Google News, which includes politics and religion. These are always mistakes--especially for grown people that should know better.

 

Like anyone else we learn by example, and getting someone to model the points in your netiquette reference is tricky.  You could use a champion that others will follow or will want to compete with.  Starting a group of kids from scratch is difficult.

 

2) Anonymity tends to stimulate unwanted behavior by those scoring high on narcissism and histrionics, etc.  It has to be safe place to learn by doing and making mistakes.  The number of good contributions within the netiquette guidelines can a metric.  Using the forum as a resource for group assignment discussions is also another way to incentivize.  But keep them off Instagram and Snapchat if the objective is writing and learning netiquette.

 

Chris

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Guess it is inevitable - but - why steer these ‘over’ digitalized youngsters into even more computer exposure? Isn’t English and language arts at this grade level more foundational about grammar and perhaps the lexicon that any particular application let alone one that often promotes further truncation of these very skills? In jr high I also recall becoming exposed to group speaking instead of hiding behind a screen. It just seems like the true ability to make brief commentary that is as impactful as it is informative requires more command of English than most 8th graders typically demonstrate. Teach a person how to swim before teaching them how to water ski.

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I think the real thing needed is for the teacher to lead the topic and lend some structure to the topic.  Each student should have to contribute 2-3 post per discussion.  Their grade should be based on participation and not content.  Even strange content can generate excellent responses later in the post.  Good Luck Mangofirst. 

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15 hours ago, mangofirst said:

But many of my kids are unsure of everything they do, so my test runs haven't gone so well.

You might think that graduate engineering students are significantly different in this respect than 8th graders, but my experience has been that getting everyone involved in online discussions or even in a face-to-face classroom environment is basically unobtainium.  There are always those that are either intimidated or indifferent--even at the graduate level (incredibly).  I often think of the vision of live mice piled up in one corner of a cage while the pet snake is staring at them from the other end as a good analogue.  That seems to sum up my experience with individual participation in class exercises--even if there is a big carrot dangling to entice them.

 

Group exercises are always a different story especially when groups have to present and defend their work/ideas (which is also possible to set up online in forum fashion). This always seems to flush out many more active participants without required cajoling by the instructor.  The students then take responsibility for teaching--like graduate teaching assistants--and all seem dig-in in some way or another.  This can also be encouraged by the instructor in incremental fashion (e.g., weekly) to shake loose the hold outs by rotating lead presentation duties each week of the group's weekly output--with the requisite motivation supplied by their group members to not drag their team grade down.  Then the weekly logs of individual forum postings online form the artifacts for metric use. Spread the good (i.e., already vocal) students across the groups. At the end of the semester, grade the individuals, not the groups. (Don't tell them until the end, however.)

 

I call this "let the microphone do the work for you" (a line from The King's Speech), otherwise known as applying social pressure.  This has the side benefit of teaching students how to work in groups for performance at the same time--a required skill nowadays, especially when building writing assignments for larger work products.

 

Online on real forums, you see the same thing happening with different cliques spontaneously forming over almost any subject, and "us vs. them" debate usually ensues.  This seems to make up the greater portion of any online forum discussions on controversial subjects of any real value.

 

Chris

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37 minutes ago, Chris A said:

Online on real forums, you see the same thing happening with different cliques spontaneously forming over almost any subject, and "us vs. them" debate usually ensues

Isn't that the natural state of things? I don't mean the "clique" part but once you come down to different ideas folks will make a choice and then defend those ideas until consensus. The problem ends up being when rationality leaves the discussion, then civility and finally folks are just talking past each other. Of course, with the teacher being a good moderator they should be able to channel these discussions and grade accordingly--It seems a time period/limit  for discussions should also be considered because once you start debating it can get addictive--So I've heard. :) 

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this is a 8th grade English and Literature course topic... I don't remember a thing I did in 1969, except parking my Honda 90 in the bicycle rack's, but 1970 sure rings a bell... me and another guy took his motorcycle upstairs to the 2nd floor for English class, (show and tell)... I suggested that he start it up, because it'd be easier to climb the stairs on his knobby tire Hodaka trail bike, that lasted about 2 minutes, before the Assistant Principle heard it and told us to get it out of the building and come to his office, those were the hardest licks from a paddle that I ever got... never did that again, to say the least.

 

So, I won't be the one to say that an audio forum layout can't work as a design for a English curriculum, but it need's structure, which begins with a log-in format, security, history, and all the different topic area's, in another web on the other side of the planet... and for school, it'd have to have everything discussed, (so far and beyond) and be accountable, such as not having the kid's brother or sister or parents fill in for the keyboard time and replies....

 

. o O (keep on rockin' in free world) … oh yeah lol, you might consider bonus points for hand written term papers turned into a pdf and submitted on line...

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On 9/20/2018 at 11:04 PM, mangofirst said:

I wanted to get some more input...from real forum participants. Looking

I've thought about your questions and I wasn't sure what the educational outcome is because there several issues here.  There are the concepts of developing thinking skills, writing skills, and ethics.  I would separate the teaching of those skills.

 

Case in point:  I would divide the class into groups of 3-5.  Have them sit on chairs in a circle facing each other and come up with a topic for them to discuss.  If you want to teach "net etiquette" give each group a "talking stick."  Only the person with the talking stick can talk, the others must listen.  If another group member wants to talk she must raise her hand to receive the talking stick.  When the hand goes up the person with the talking stick has ten seconds to pass it on.

 

Once this concept of "one person talking at a time" and conversational skills are better developed then the class can go to translating their verbal skills into writing skills, specifically that of composing, translating thoughts into words.  That is a skill which must be developed and practiced.

 

I would also include ethics training.  This is BY FAR the most important part of net etiquette.  The problems with kids bullying other kids on-line is a well known issue.  Some bullied kids have even committed suicide and the kids who encouraged this have been held criminally responsible.

 

The best way to teach this is to have a designated bully pick on a designated victim, the other kids in the group can watch.  Have the bully express her feelings.  Have your victim express her feelings how it feels to be bullied.  Have the other kids express how it felt to see someone being bullied, and what they should do when they see it.

 

The bully topic btw is always picked by the teacher.  Bully subjects can include "I don't like the color of your hair, I don't like jackets with zippers, I don't like that you are not wearing a wrist watch and other non-typical subjects.  Avoid real bully subjects such as glasses wearers, height, weight, type of clothing worn and other personal issues kids this age ALWAYS struggle with.

 

You can teach your victims how to react if you want.   For instance the technique of "agreeing with truth" is easy to learn and very effective.

Bully:  "you are stupid."

Victim response: "yeah you're right, I could study a little harder."

 

It puts the victim in control of her emotions and completely takes the wind of the sails of the bully.  It's hard to argue when someone agrees with you.  You don't have to agree you're stupid, but you find a part of the statement you can agree with.

 

Those are some places to start.

 

 

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Where to jump in is my question...  A lot of good comments, which hopefully help you formulate your game plan!  Sitting here grinning about an 8th grade grammar Nazi who always brings her A game to class and has piles of papers sitting around the house!  lol  No matter how you formulate your game plan I think the kids have to be able to express their true selves.  Whether it be emotes (with control) or words.  Preferably words.  Good writers write from their heart and soul expressing themselves, which I'm sure you know already.  Once they can do that it becomes easier. They have to "feel comfy in their own skin."  Having seen you here, I know you'll handle it well.   :)

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