Teacher Question about Netiquette

[mangofirst]

11 minutes ago, dwilawyer said:

The regular bar chart is better, for me, and it would be much better if it listed the percentage in each category, you would see number plus the bar height with percentage lines in background.

Done.  Check them out.

[windashine]

impressions of the page 2 bar chart (the regular one is best)

1. column's should be wider, since the numerals are 3 digits
2. if the background color is a changeable option - try gray 

thoughts on humankind scaling for low, medium and high - (sounds like a report card) - How about didn't or done ?

 

Edited September 23, 2018 by windashine
in parethesis

[Chris A]

41 minutes ago, mangofirst said:

For those of you who are good at charts and graphs, is there one that would show this data in a more visually appealing way than these?

The charts that you posted say a lot already.

 

In my wife's schools, they always handed GATE (gifted and talented) students to teachers that need the bar a little lower. 👎

 

 

 

[mangofirst]

2 minutes ago, Chris A said:

The charts that you posted say a lot already.

 

In my wife's schools, they always handed GATE (gifted and talented) students to teachers that need the bar a little lower. 👎

 

 

 

So what you're saying is, they have more faith in me? It just seems impossible when I look at the data. Guess I should put the data to the back of my mind and rally forward.

[Chris A]

The students that need the most help always got the best teachers...in my experience.  Perhaps they don't tell you that in your particular district. 

 

In Texas, all testing measures the bottom of the scale only (extremely heavily weighted to color of skin)--never the top achievement, i.e., Texas Assessment of Academic Skills--TAAS STAAR - State of Texas Assessments of Academic Readiness.  The entire school receives a failing grade if one minority student too many fails to meet standard...and that's one student in some skin-color groups. 

 

Chris

[Travis In Austin]

3 hours ago, mangofirst said:

Done.  Check them out.

Looks good, hard for me to see a couple of the colors,  esp. yellow,  you might want to just go with black.

[mangofirst]

6 hours ago, Chris A said:

The students that need the most help always got the best teachers...in my experience.  Perhaps they don't tell you that in your particular district. 

 

In Texas, all testing measures the bottom of the scale only (extremely heavily weighted to color of skin)--never the top achievement, i.e., Texas Assessment of Academic Skills--TAAS STAAR - State of Texas Assessments of Academic Readiness.  The entire school receives a failing grade if one minority student too many fails to meet standard...and that's one student in some skin-color groups. 

 

Chris

Ours is called the LEAP 2025. Louisiana Educational Assessment Program.  Haven't discovered who owns the test...as far as I can tell, it's owned by the State.  I usually try to follow the money, if for no other reason than to know which products will be introduced next.

 

4 hours ago, dwilawyer said:

Looks good, hard for me to see a couple of the colors,  esp. yellow,  you might want to just go with black.

Yeah, I know.  I was looking at it on my phone and the Google Sheets app doesn't have all the same edit options as the online one.  Also, I'm new to Google Sheets, haven't used Excel in over a year, and have to search for how-to's, but I'm practicing. 😊  

[mangofirst]

Fixed and fixed.  New and improved charts!  Cannot figure out how to change font color within charts.

[wvu80]

24 minutes ago, mangofirst said:

Fixed and fixed.  New and improved charts!  Cannot figure out how to change font color within charts.

I just recreated your data using Excel and was able to manipulate multiple views.  I've got a better idea of how to look at this data.

 

I suggest you use either a clustered column or a line chart, the latter by far being the easiest to read at a glance that you statistically speaking, they have given you by far the most difficult student population to work with in terms of achievement. 

 

If you overlay a standard bell curve over the chart you will see what I mean, your students are skewed towards the negative side and it's not even close.

 

I'm glad they have a good teacher that gives a darn like you do. 

[garyrc]

On 9/20/2018 at 8:04 PM, mangofirst said:

to teach them  ...  civilized debate

 

You came here for help in encouraging civilized debate?   Actually we are OK.  Teaching them to be respectful of one another and tactful is fine.  But, I think too many rules get in the way.  Fortunately the worst of Roberts Rules of Order won't work on computers.   Conflict can be good in that it can remove the veil, so we are addressing the person, not the persona.

 

Largely unrelated, but since we're here ... if you haven't read it already, I think good reading for many teachers would be polymath Paul Goodman's Compulsory Miseducation and the Community of Scholars (two books in one binding in paperback).  If it isn't easy to purchase, libraries should have it. 

 

 

 

 

[garyrc]

On 9/23/2018 at 6:48 PM, mangofirst said:

Ours is called the LEAP 2025. Louisiana Educational Assessment Program.  Haven't discovered who owns the test...as far as I can tell, it's owned by the State.  I usually try to follow the money, if for no other reason than to know which products will be introduced next. 

 

😊

 

Good for you. 

 

It may be the Louisiana version of a vended test, compiled with the permission of, and payment to, the manufacturer.  In California, at least in the past (before my retirement in 2003), they used the so called Stanford test, with added questions and sections, to make the torture more exquisite.  The name and address of the test's owner should be on the manual, often on the back; you were given the test's technical manual, weren't you?  Teachers should be, at least, allowed to read the manual and see how the test's creators assessed reliability and validity, as well as looking at reviews of the test, especially in Mental Measurements Yearbook (Buros) in the library.  A good test librarian can help interpret comments concerning the manufacturer's testing of the test, i.e., the methods used to test the reliability and validity and any other assessments by the reviewers.  Those reviewers (always at least two) are experts, and as such, sometimes disagree with each other (we used to say they should be regarded as "The Siskel and Ebert of testing," but that's hardly appropriate anymore). 

 

Students in lower grades were often given one of two tests.  One test manual warned that their test's validity suffered if the student didn't finish, "every student must attempt to answer every question," so all students should be allowed to work on it until finished.  That didn't always happen.  The schools tried to cram the test taking into one class period.   Well, they were warned.

 

It is the test's creator's professional responsibility to run tests on an instrument's reliability and validity, and publish the results in a test manual.  Firms like ETS were doing that, at least the last time I looked (2003) .  The process is much too expensive and time consuming for the makers of most internet tests.  It's probably a safe bet that any test that somebody hasn't been paid to create is of unknown reliability and validity (probably low).  As you suggested, "follow the money."  Here is a comment from a review of a very popular test (the other one alluded to above): "The method of evaluating this test's reliability is known only to the test's creator and God, and even God might have some questions."

[Travis In Austin]

4 minutes ago, garyrc said:

 

Good for you. 

 

It may be the Louisiana version of a vended test, compiled with the permission of, and payment to, the manufacturer.  In California, at least in the past (before my retirement in 2003), they used the so called Stanford test, with added questions and sections, to make the torture more exquisite.  The name and address of the test's owner should be on the manual, often on the back; you were given the test's technical manual, weren't you?  Teachers should be, at least, allowed to read the manual and see how the test's creators assessed reliability and validity, as well as looking at reviews of the test, especially in Mental Measurements Yearbook (Buros) in the library.  A good test librarian can help interpret comments concerning the manufacturer's testing of the test, i.e., the methods used to test the reliability and validity and any other assessments by the reviewers.  Those reviewers (always at least two) are experts, and as such, sometimes disagree with each other (we used to say they should be regarded as "The Siskel and Ebert of testing," but that's hardly appropriate anymore). 

 

Students in lower grades were often given one of two tests.  One test manual warned that their test's validity suffered if the student didn't finish, "every student must attempt to answer every question," so all students should be allowed to work on it until finished.  That didn't always happen.  The schools tried to cram the test taking into one class period.   Well, they were warned.

 

It is the test's creator's professional responsibility to run tests on an instrument's reliability and validity, and publish the results in a test manual.  Firms like ETS were doing that, at least the last time I looked (2003) .  The process is much too expensive and time consuming for the makers of most internet tests.  It's probably a safe bet that any test that somebody hasn't been paid to create is of unknown reliability and validity (probably low).  As you suggested, "follow the money."  Here is a comment from a review of a very popular test (the other one alluded to above): "The method of evaluating this test's reliability is known only to the test's creator and God, and even God might have some questions."

I don't think they let teachers give the tests anymore, and I think they are done on computer terminals so that teachers cannot manipulate tests and avoid scandals. 

 

 

[mangofirst]

On 9/22/2018 at 12:17 PM, wvu80 said:

Something that bothers me but I'm not sure what you can do about it:  I notice a lot of kids when engaged in conversation will attempt to "prove" things by searching Google ON THEIR CELL PHONE as you are talking to them!  I think this is more a boy thing more than a girl thing.

 

Us boys are "right fighters" very task oriented and we like to be right about everything.  Most of you girls are MUCH more social and just want to get along.  Boys and girls are different.

Now, now, let's not start talking about how boys and girls are different and have different brains and body parts and stuff or you might offend a little snowflake.

[mangofirst]

2 hours ago, garyrc said:

 

Good for you. 

 

It may be the Louisiana version of a vended test, compiled with the permission of, and payment to, the manufacturer.  In California, at least in the past (before my retirement in 2003), they used the so called Stanford test, with added questions and sections, to make the torture more exquisite.  The name and address of the test's owner should be on the manual, often on the back; you were given the test's technical manual, weren't you?  Teachers should be, at least, allowed to read the manual and see how the test's creators assessed reliability and validity, as well as looking at reviews of the test, especially in Mental Measurements Yearbook (Buros) in the library.  A good test librarian can help interpret comments concerning the manufacturer's testing of the test, i.e., the methods used to test the reliability and validity and any other assessments by the reviewers.  Those reviewers (always at least two) are experts, and as such, sometimes disagree with each other (we used to say they should be regarded as "The Siskel and Ebert of testing," but that's hardly appropriate anymore). 

 

Students in lower grades were often given one of two tests.  One test manual warned that their test's validity suffered if the student didn't finish, "every student must attempt to answer every question," so all students should be allowed to work on it until finished.  That didn't always happen.  The schools tried to cram the test taking into one class period.   Well, they were warned.

 

It is the test's creator's professional responsibility to run tests on an instrument's reliability and validity, and publish the results in a test manual.  Firms like ETS were doing that, at least the last time I looked (2003) .  The process is much too expensive and time consuming for the makers of most internet tests.  It's probably a safe bet that any test that somebody hasn't been paid to create is of unknown reliability and validity (probably low).  As you suggested, "follow the money."  Here is a comment from a review of a very popular test (the other one alluded to above): "The method of evaluating this test's reliability is known only to the test's creator and God, and even God might have some questions."

1) I was not, but you can damn well bet that I will have one within the week if such a thing exists.

2) I get your reference, old man.

3) My heart just dropped into my stomach reading that. Hmm...the game is afoot!

[mangofirst]

1 hour ago, dwilawyer said:

I don't think they let teachers give the tests anymore, and I think they are done on computer terminals so that teachers cannot manipulate tests and avoid scandals. 

 

 

Oh yes, we are test proctors. There's a whole bunch of stuff we are told not to do, but the first and the most heartbreaking is not to help them with anything besides technical issues. Just imagine teaching a group of kids every year, modifying your lessons based on different learners' styles and ability levels, then watching them struggle for 4-5 hours a day for a week straight. It's all so logical. 🙄

[wvu80]

18 minutes ago, mangofirst said:

Now, now, let's not start talking about how boys and girls are different and have different brains and body parts and stuff

 

or you might offend a little snowflake.

Aren't you a little too conservative to be a teacher? 

 

I'm beginning to have doubts about you...

[mangofirst]

1 minute ago, wvu80 said:

Aren't you a little too conservative to be a teacher? 

 

I'm beginning to have doubts about you...

I do not fall under the labels of conservative or liberal thank you very much. GDI till I die!

[garyrc]

1 hour ago, mangofirst said:

4-5 hours a day for a week straight.

 

That's child abuse.  I believe in light, thoughtful, empirically supported testing as part of the educational experience, not as an intrusive element that displaces too much teaching and learning.  

 

I fully realize that the suggestions below are a bit radical, at least in some eyes.

1. I think when a child is ready, that child should be tested, not during a hell week.  Some will be ready early, some late.
2. Tests should be finely diagnostic, suggesting what areas need work, and congratulating the child for areas they have mastered.
3. The tests should not be noxious, but lightweight, fun, and short, short enough to be given when a child is ready to be tested on that unit, during a time they can book for testing, with a rotating proctor who is there many hours per week (perhaps teachers doing paperwork?).  Instead of a 4 to 5 hour testing session, there would be short tests throughout the term when a student feels ready to be tested on that unit.  Making the testing pleasant may be the most difficult part for the test's creators, and the teachers.  So, as a student, I might get two weeks of instruction in quadratic equations, go through some supportive homework, and feel ready, so I would book myself into the "proctorium" to take the test.  Up to about thirty students could be tested at once, as long as quiet is maintained, with students arriving when ready and leaving as they finish their tests.  No test would be timed, or "speeded," as testing people say.   These lightweight, but reliable and valid tests would have to be a complete and sufficient substitute for the current state-wide testing.
4. There should be retesting to mastery (acknowledging that not every child will be able to achieve mastery in the system as it is).  At the very least, the test-retest scores should not be averaged or otherwise combined, but only the last one on a given unit, for each student, should count on the grounds that it is what you can do at the end of the process that counts, and that presents the best snapshot of the learning that has occurred.   Statistically equivalent forms of each test are remarkably easy to create.  We had a testing procedure like this at SFSU, for statistics students.  It worked very well for most, but not all.  Different strokes.  Thanks to retesting to mastery, the grades tended to be mostly A's and some Incompletes.  Those getting A's were performing at the A level.  The administration objected to so many A's being given, so the professor said, "Send any administrator down -- Hell, send them all down here and let them take our tests, and see if they get handed A's for their performance without getting our instruction.  There is learning going on at the A level here!"  Nobody took him up on it.
5. What should be done with the final scores is controversial.  There are many colorful and borderline obscene suggestions.  One option, in part, is to look at change scores for each child, and consider improvement to be the goal, not some desired (and arbitrary?) level of performance.
6. A more radical proposal would be, in addition to all of the above, to keep all test scores between the teachers and the students, and deny them to the administration, the district, and the state.   Don't get fired.

I like the quote in your signature: "The theory of quantum electrodynamics describes Nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And it agrees fully with experiment. So I hope you can accept Nature as she is--absurd." -- Richard P. Feynman.    Hawking would agree, reinforcing the idea that experiments support quantum mechanics, even though "the math is dubious."   He also points out that the "M" in M-theory may stand for "master," "mystery," or "miracle" and that it seems to be all three. 

[Quvanu]

Maybe you can try google form. If I understand you correctly. But if you need professional help or advice, you can contact the guys from this site my assignment help

Edited October 3, 2019 by Quvanu