Steve P Posted September 23, 2018 Share Posted September 23, 2018 I have been using original Large Advent speakers purchased new in 1974 (I have repaired the surrounds) to listen to mostly classical and organ music. Every few years I get interested in speakers, look around and conclude that the Advents still sound pretty good in comparison. For a while I was thinking that my ideal replacement would be an RF-7 if I could find the room. But more recently I have been looking seriously at the Forte III and Paradigm Prestige 85F or 95F. I have been able to listen to the Forte III and a smaller Paradigm, but not in the same room (Paradigm 75F in a small, very well prepared room, Forte on the open store floor, driven by different amplifier). The Forte III did not sound as good as I had expected in comparison, but given what I have read, that is most likely the difference in set up. I am listening in a 13x18 foot room, half of which is wide open to a second floor and the rest of the house, and all of which has a very high cathedral ceiling. The speakers are driven by an Anthem MRX 720 receiver, and we often listen at low to medium volume. I hope to clean up the upper bass a bit that my wife describes as "smushed together," and gain some greater clarity in midrange (e.g., massed strings, combined chorus) without sacrificing the deep bass that the Advents do quite well. I will probably have to make the speaker decision without a proper A-B comparison and was hoping that I might be able to get some feedback here from people who are old enough to remember the Advents and/or have some experience with the newer Paradigm speakers. I am a bit inclined towards Klipsch because of the local manufacture and the quality of PWK's technical papers, but my only actual speaker experience of Klipsch is an RC-35 center speaker that is hard to judge, and the little (and _very_excellent_) THX 2.1 powered speaker system (that I think is no longer marketed) that is entertaining me in the office "computer niche" as I write this. Oh. . . I also have a 10" Klipsch subwoofer. But it does not extend as far into the bass as the Advents, so it is not clear whether it is really helping (and neither the center nor sub is engaged for music listening). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyrc Posted September 23, 2018 Share Posted September 23, 2018 I would think the Forte III might be the best bet. One person on the forum thought it was too bright, but many others love it. The Forte I got one of the best reviews in the history of High Fidelity magazine. The III was designed by Roy Delgado, Klipsch's chief engineer who is very well thought of, and worked closely with PWK years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtr20 Posted September 23, 2018 Share Posted September 23, 2018 I would think the forte III would be an awesome upgrade for you. I think the sound of them is much more detailed and refined compared to the rf7. Keep us updated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted September 23, 2018 Share Posted September 23, 2018 I used original Advents for many years, and even stacked them. They really don’t go that low (or that high). Frequency response, if sitting on the floor - is basically 45Hz to 15kHz. They start rolling off rapidly at 12kHz. They have a pronounced hump at 100Hz, that gives the impression of emitting low bass - but it’s not. I’m sure your sub goes lower. “More bass” is not lower bass. Buy the Forte III. It goes lower than the Paradigm, and uses compression drivers - and there is no substitute for a dedicated midrange driver for realism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve P Posted September 23, 2018 Author Share Posted September 23, 2018 Roy Delgado's association with the design as well as his comments and participation on this forum are, indeed, one of the things that incline me towards Klipsch in general and the Forte III in particular. The approach to design that he describes makes a lot of physical sense. And I suspect that the lack of a distinct midrange driver may well be a part of the problem with the Advent -- making the large cone try to cover too much of the frequency range. I cannot speak particularly to the high range of the Advent, though I did notice last night that the high violin note in the Tchaikovsky violin concerto sounded decidedly sick. Of course that could be the speaker, recording quality or even (unlikely) the original violin. On the low end, however, the Advent is definitely better than some think. The original specification of 3db roll off was between 33 and 38 Hz (depended on which piece of advertising literature you read!). I have made a few measurements of my own, and the speaker is down a bit but still pumping at 30Hz. Placed side-by-side with the 10" subwoofer, the low-frequency spectral envelope of the Advent lies above that of the subwoofer at similar overall levels. The comparison is probably more meaningful than the actual levels, since room acoustics have such a strong influence in this frequency range. It is also true that such a measurement with a modest pure sine does not show which will begin distorting first. Notably, the later Advents had a much shallower bass; but the early models were actually pretty good, or at least I got a particularly good set. Thanks for the positive feedback about the Forte III, particularly vis-a-vis the Paradigm. I do really appreciate the advice. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve P Posted September 28, 2018 Author Share Posted September 28, 2018 After more research and just a bit more listening, I took this advice and put in an order for a pair of Forte iii. Without the direct comparison, to a certain extent I am buying them on faith - the assurance of sound hoped for and the certainty of things not yet heard. I am looking forward to hearing them in my own room and perhaps comparing them to the Advents before I move those upstairs. I have a suspicion that, notwithstanding my measurements, I will find that the listening comparison will bear out Deang's comments. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted September 28, 2018 Moderators Share Posted September 28, 2018 I didn't say anything because it's been many years since I had some Advents and it was not the large ones. But I wouild have said get the Forte lll's, I think you will like the difference, it will sound more live and not as polite. It will sound different and may take a little getting use to but to me better. I hope you like them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshnich Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 I have owned the large advents ( years and years ago!) and I enjoyed them. But they are a completely different sounding speaker than Klipsch - Forte 111 or otherwise. I think owned them until I could trade them in on a pair of Rectilinear s that sounded more dynamic to me that were in turn sold off to help pay for my first Klipsch speakers provided that you enjoy dynamics and realism, you will be very happy with your choice. J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve P Posted October 26, 2018 Author Share Posted October 26, 2018 It took a while to get them due to a miscommunication between the factory and dealer here regarding the "special order" of lambswool grills with cherry cabinets (a very handsome combination, by the way). But I picked up the Forte iii's this evening and put them in the system in place of the advents. I did not A-B, just put them in and tried out a few things. The first couple of general orchestral pieces sounded nice, but I was not sure that the improved sound was the speakers or our anticipation. Then we put on a James Galway album and my wife and I both went "Oh wow!" The improvement in clarity in the midrange and treble was striking. Yo-yo Ma was the same story - like having his cello in the room. I do not see the same degree of difference in the couple of symphonic pieces I have tried so far, but I suspect that might actually be the limitation of the source material and not reproduction chain. So thanks to y'all that nudged me in the direction of the Forte's. I am sure that there is some optimization to be done, and I need to live with them a while. But at least here at the beginning I certainly do not find the speakers to be harsh or fatiguing. Some _music_, yes . . . but that is the price of accurate reproduction in my mind. I only have one disappointment - I looked all over them and could not find Roy Delgado's signature anywhere. I guess it must be inside. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K5SS Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 Congratulations! We love photos around these parts.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isotopesope Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 congrats! cherry cabinets and the lamb's wool grilles sounds quite handsome. i bought my Forte III's without hearing them and was blown away immediately, only to be further and further impressed as they "broke in" and as i have tweaked their placement. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornukopia Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 On 10/25/2018 at 9:45 PM, Steve P said: The improvement in clarity in the midrange and treble was striking. You made a good choice with the Forte III. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomy2 Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 Yes, a photo would be great! I’m jealous as it might be a little while before I can be in the Forte III club. Congrats! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve P Posted October 28, 2018 Author Share Posted October 28, 2018 (edited) On 10/25/2018 at 11:59 PM, K5SS said: Congratulations! We love photos around these parts.. I am a bit reluctant to include the photos after seeing all of the very nice listening rooms that have been displayed here. But here are a couple of pictures of the speakers in position and one of the top since I have seen some interest in the tone of the cherry. For reference, I have color-corrected the pictures to the off-white wall behind the screen, though they seem a bit dark in the thumbnail. The turned wooden goblet is maple with a natural finish. It is an almost exact match to the klipsch cabinets. It is hard to get a good picture of the cabinets since they tend to pick up the colors around them. If the veneer is real cherry (I believe the walnut finish is _not_ real walnut, so I can not be sure here), then I expect that the cabinets will darken over time. Edited October 28, 2018 by Steve P photos did not attach on first reply Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve P Posted October 28, 2018 Author Share Posted October 28, 2018 It looks like I cannot upload photos (and yes, they were < 2MB). Perhaps I am too new? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted October 28, 2018 Share Posted October 28, 2018 10 minutes ago, Steve P said: It looks like I cannot upload photos (and yes, they were < 2MB). Perhaps I am too new? That's a possibility. We had a problem with some bots a few months ago and Chad upgraded the security to new posters. Try posting one picture in one post, see if that works. -Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve P Posted October 28, 2018 Author Share Posted October 28, 2018 1 minute ago, wvu80 said: Try posting one picture in one post, see if that works. -Dave Trying your suggestion. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve P Posted October 28, 2018 Author Share Posted October 28, 2018 Looks like that works, so here is the second one with the tops. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted October 28, 2018 Share Posted October 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, Steve P said: Trying your suggestion. I see it. Wow, the lambswool with cherry is super sharp looking! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve P Posted October 28, 2018 Author Share Posted October 28, 2018 Since I seem to be on a roll with the photos, here is one showing the "listening room". Actually, this room has to do it all, and it is far from ideal as acoustics go. Half of it is a box with a calculated standing wave at 45-50 Hz; the other half is wide open, as you can see from my camera position. The center speaker is a RC-35, but I have not used it since adding the Forte's (their phantom center is superior to the RC-35). There is a 10" klipsch sub to the right of the front right speaker (it has a green cloth on top). Since the Forte's entered the picture, it does not have a whole lot to do. I think that the horns actually help the poor room layout by minimizing some of the reflections -- but that is just untested theory. The Shetland Sheepdog is a movable absorber ;). 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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