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Best speaker for my space


Mila1924

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5 hours ago, pzannucci said:

Cornwalls have less controlled bass than La Scalas or the Fortes that are pictured which makes some say they are boomy.  Using La Scalas, to me, requires subs.  Also need to tame the upper mid/treble with a lot of room management with the La Scala.

 

The Fortes in that room should be quite good though with that open plan, you will need some bottom end reinforcement with just about any speaker.

So basically I need to get a sub to make up for the large space that it is in?

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10 hours ago, Westcoastdrums said:

Why does everyone think Cornwalls are boomy?  I probably have the LEAST ideal setup for them and COULDN'T DISAGREE more.   I have ZERO boominess and a small room. Are the folks stating This those thay CURRENTLY own what they are commenting on?   I am.... 

20180922_170129.jpg

 

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5 hours ago, Westcoastdrums said:

Have you heard Cornwall IIIs, La Scalas and Forte in the same room?  I doubt it.  My comment is with that in mind. Horn loaded BASS IMO is a little overrated unless you have a LARGE room to take advantage of the full length of the wavelength projected from the horn. I don't have that luxury.   Maybe you do? 

Dude, yes, he has heard and owned them all.

 

Relax.

 

He is just stating his opinion  (based on measurements, plots and experience) as you did on horn loaded bass.

 

By the way, PWK disagreed with you (vehemently so) on the horn loaded bass comment.

 

Travis

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I was referring to Mila1924's room shape. My set up is somewhat similar, my condo living room/dining room and kitchen run like this. In the main listening position in front of the speakers everything would be fine, moving away from it could be problematic.

It has taken a bit of noodling around and Audessey to tame a few areas where my bass would get a little out of control.

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34 minutes ago, Mila1924 said:

So basically I need to get a sub to make up for the large space that it is in?

Not necessarily.

 

It depends on what you listen to, and what you prefer.

 

Some people prefer a lot of low end, some are happy with none.  

 

@mikebse2a3 or @Chris A might be able to suggest some simple room treatments, which is where I would start before you do anything like changing drivers, networks, etc.  You will end up chasing you tail.

 

 

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On 9/23/2018 at 5:50 PM, Mila1924 said:

Hi, I’m attaching a picture of my room and stereo set up.i have a pair of forte ‘s, marantz 2252b receiver and entry level pioneer tt w Ortofon blue cartridge.  My living room kinda connects to the whole house, picture one big  Rectangle. I just don’t feel like the fortes fill the space the way I want my speakers to. The room size is roughly 30x15 

 

What would be be the best Klipsch for my space? Cornwall, La Scala? Idk

 

 

EA661DD2-4075-4A5A-9E8F-186E17E5DC4E.jpeg

We need a photo of the right corner of the room.

 

Is there a door on the right side of wall like there is on the left side?

 

What is the distance from the edge of the door way on left to the farthest useable space to the right?

 

 

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9 hours ago, Mila1924 said:

So basically I need to get a sub to make up for the large space that it is in?

That was my first thought that you need a sub, maybe two.  A single 15" sealed sub w/500 wpc gets you 90% there, the second sub gives you that last 10%.

 

I would also suggest you upgrade to another receiver or AVR, something with more than 52 wpc.  Klipsch says the Forte III can handle 100 watts continuous and 400 watts peak.   (Edit:  These are Forte I)  I know your Marantz 2252b is legendary for its sound but I really think a stronger amp 100-200 watts would help those speakers fill a room with your open floor plan. 

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On 9/23/2018 at 5:50 PM, Mila1924 said:

I just don’t feel like the fortes fill the space the way I want my speakers to...What would be be the best Klipsch for my space? Cornwall, La Scala? Idk

 

4 hours ago, dwilawyer said:

Not necessarily. It depends on what you listen to, and what you prefer. Some people prefer a lot of low end, some are happy with none. @mikebse2a3 or @Chris A might be able to suggest some simple room treatments, which is where I would start before you do anything like changing drivers, networks, etc.  You will end up chasing your tail.

I think that many here have suggested solutions for pieces of the puzzle, but maybe not entire solutions.  Perhaps discussion of what the symptoms and pictures say is a better way to start.  Then you have some mental picture of what may be occurring acoustically.  [Understand that without some measurements or actually hearing the setup in your room, the following comments are somewhat conjectural.]

 

1) "filling the space" is usually a function of coverage of the loudspeakers with direct sound.  The Fortes will cover about 90 degrees well, but your particular placement demands more like 180 degrees (half a circle) coverage to fill the dining area and kitchen, toward the front door.  I don't know of any Klipsch speakers that will do that and also provide you good stereo imaging as stereo speakers.  (I think the comment in jest, above, about having big Magneplanar panels was really addressing that issue.).

 

2) One requirement for having a sense of envelopment is reflections coming from the side walls.  In your room, you've got at least one side (and Travis has of course asked you for a picture of the right side oft he room looking at the speakers to understand just what kind of wall reflections are coming from that side) that doesn't really have reflections, so you're missing that side wall "spaciousness". 

 

3) Note that the coverage of sound really doesn't go through open passageways and halls--it usually gets significantly attenuated when passing through these areas.

 

With the comments above in mind to form a mental picture of what is happening, some suggestions that might help, but not totally resolve your issues:

 

a) Add more speakers to fill those areas around the dining table and kitchen.

 

b) if you have a wall next to the left side of your speakers presently (part of Travis's comment above), you could turn the layout 90 degrees to the left and cover the length of the room.  This would address the requirements on loudspeaker coverage to the capabilities of the Fortes that you already own, perhaps eliminating the need for extra fill speakers, and help with bass response--if you can get the Fortes closer to each room corner. 

 

c) Spaciousness is also a function of having plenty of acoustic energy available to you.  The Fortes will provide enough overall acoustic energy to fill the room (if turned 90 degrees), but you will probably still enjoy having larger horn mouths to keep the direct vs. reflected energy ratio high, even down into the lower midrange and midbass, and have enough horn-loaded bass to keep bass modulation distortion low.  Adding diffusion panels will help, but I believe that the comment about having Jubilees or some larger mouth horns (including Khorns, La Scalas or Belles) would work better and potentially cost less and be less obtrusive visually.  Jubilees have a huge soundstage that will fill the entire room. 

 

d) Cornwalls have higher levels of modulation distortion than Khorns, La Scalas, Belles or Jubilees (i.e., horn-loaded bass bins).  If you've got a place for Khorns in the room (turned 90 degrees from your present layout), I think that would be the most effective single change that you could make.  Cornwalls have fairly good bass extension (more than La Scalas and Belles), but not as much as Khorns and Jubilees. They will color the overall sound when playing at anything above about 85-90 dB at your prime listening position (i.e., the Cornwalls actually work extremely well as surrounds).  When playing into a room of the size of yours, I think that would not be much if a step up from your current Fortes. 

 

That's enough for now...time to take a breath.

 

Chris

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1 hour ago, wvu80 said:

That was my first thought that you need a sub, maybe two.  A single 15" sealed sub w/500 wpc gets you 90% there, the second sub gives you that last 10%.

 

I would also suggest you upgrade to another receiver or AVR, something with more than 52 wpc.  Klipsch says the Forte III can handle 100 watts continuous and 400 watts peak.  I know your Marantz 2252b is legendary for its sound but I really think a stronger amp 100-200 watts would help those speakers fill a room with your open floor plan. 

I couldn't disagree more....first of all, the OP said Forte, not Forte III.  Regardless, the sensitivity  of the Forte is 98db at 1 watt, so to suggest a 100-200 watt amp is serious overkill.  The Marantz 2252b is more than satisfactory and is a terrific receiver with outstanding sound.  I am not a big fan of Forte or Cornwall any longer since I've fully transitioned over to La Scala and Khorns.  However, Chris's comments above are well worth taking into consideration.

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36 minutes ago, jimjimbo said:

first of all, the OP said Forte, not Forte III.

I went back to the first post and looked... he said the "Forte fills"... 

 

LOL!  Too many i's and L's for these old eyes!  :lol:

 

You're right.  👍

+++

 

1 hour ago, Chris A said:

I think that many here have suggested solutions for pieces of the puzzle, but maybe not entire solutions...(respectful snip!, just wanted to reference the post)

I agree with everything Chris wrote, not just the part I quoted but certainly including that. 

 

I think there is some performance still left on the table with regards to speaker placement and setup.  I recently moved my RF-83's away from the wall and further into the room, toed in.  It made a HUGE improvement in the soundstage.

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@Mila1924 ... Haha, "had" the same problem.  Open great room ... had Forte's on a Marantz 2252B also, but just did not do the job.  Switched to Cornwalls which was quite an improvement. Then got a pair of PRO KPT-904's - problem solved! Even my neighbors like the sound :D 

Cheers, Emile  

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Since it seems you can’t pull them out from the back wall too much, Cornwall III,II, I or Chorus I, CF-3 or 4 or KLF-20 Or 30 would work well for you. I know reference is seen more for movies but the RF-7 III is outstanding and really improved on the II’s brightness with very smooth highs. I think you’d be very happy with that as well. I’d avoid passive radiator Klipsch speakers.


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8 hours ago, dwilawyer said:

We need a photo of the right corner of the room.

 

Is there a door on the right side of wall like there is on the left side?

 

What is the distance from the edge of the door way on left to the farthest useable space to the right?

 

 

there isn't a door on the right side, but it opens up about 8 feet to the right of the right speaker to a little hallway.  my house is one big rectangle, and rooms kinda tucked off on the side. 

 

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6 hours ago, Chris A said:

 

 

I think that many here have suggested solutions for pieces of the puzzle, but maybe not entire solutions.  Perhaps discussion of what the symptoms and pictures say is a better way to start.  Then you have some mental picture of what may be occurring acoustically.  [Understand that without some measurements or actually hearing the setup in your room, the following comments are somewhat conjectural.]

 

1) "filling the space" is usually a function of coverage of the loudspeakers with direct sound.  The Fortes will cover about 90 degrees well, but your particular placement demands more like 180 degrees (half a circle) coverage to fill the dining area and kitchen, toward the front door.  I don't know of any Klipsch speakers that will do that and also provide you good stereo imaging as stereo speakers.  (I think the comment in jest, above, about having big Magneplanar panels was really addressing that issue.).

 

2) One requirement for having a sense of envelopment is reflections coming from the side walls.  In your room, you've got at least one side (and Travis has of course asked you for a picture of the right side oft he room looking at the speakers to understand just what kind of wall reflections are coming from that side) that doesn't really have reflections, so you're missing that side wall "spaciousness". 

 

3) Note that the coverage of sound really doesn't go through open passageways and halls--it usually gets significantly attenuated when passing through these areas.

 

With the comments above in mind to form a mental picture of what is happening, some suggestions that might help, but not totally resolve your issues:

 

a) Add more speakers to fill those areas around the dining table and kitchen.

 

b) if you have a wall next to the left side of your speakers presently (part of Travis's comment above), you could turn the layout 90 degrees to the left and cover the length of the room.  This would address the requirements on loudspeaker coverage to the capabilities of the Fortes that you already own, perhaps eliminating the need for extra fill speakers, and help with bass response--if you can get the Fortes closer to each room corner. 

 

c) Spaciousness is also a function of having plenty of acoustic energy available to you.  The Fortes will provide enough overall acoustic energy to fill the room (if turned 90 degrees), but you will probably still enjoy having larger horn mouths to keep the direct vs. reflected energy ratio high, even down into the lower midrange and midbass, and have enough horn-loaded bass to keep bass modulation distortion low.  Adding diffusion panels will help, but I believe that the comment about having Jubilees or some larger mouth horns (including Khorns, La Scalas or Belles) would work better and potentially cost less and be less obtrusive visually.  Jubilees have a huge soundstage that will fill the entire room. 

 

d) Cornwalls have higher levels of modulation distortion than Khorns, La Scalas, Belles or Jubilees (i.e., horn-loaded bass bins).  If you've got a place for Khorns in the room (turned 90 degrees from your present layout), I think that would be the most effective single change that you could make.  Cornwalls have fairly good bass extension (more than La Scalas and Belles), but not as much as Khorns and Jubilees. They will color the overall sound when playing at anything above about 85-90 dB at your prime listening position (i.e., the Cornwalls actually work extremely well as surrounds).  When playing into a room of the size of yours, I think that would not be much if a step up from your current Fortes. 

 

That's enough for now...time to take a breath.

 

Chris

wow, thanks for all the great feedback, I will add a few more pics of my room soon, I dont really think that 90 degree idea would work though.

 

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