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BLEND THEM TOGETHER


baszha
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I'm getting into this at a total room design level with Quest Acoustical Interiors now.  Just started a project with them for design of my HT/2 channel music/multi-channel music room.  Hopefully Shawn Byrne won't mind if I quote our recent email exchange about this question:

 

I asked: 

“Whats the difference between designing a HT/surround music/2 channel
music room and designing a mixing studio? I know part of the answer I
think but is there a continuum of design decisions that lead in one
direction or the other. Both are small room acoustic designs but
perhaps the studio emphasizes clarity and focus of every detail of the
mix whereas the HT obviously integrates video and emphasizes
sound-stage and envelopment. Thoughts?”
 
Shawn replied: 
"That is partially correct.  The main differences really have to do with setup and goals.  In a home theater, we are focusing on providing a good experience for all listeners.  In a two channel system, we are more focused on a single listener, and in a mixing environment, your more concerned with the near-field.  These don’t mix well together.  However, you can have a great sounding two channel system in a theater, but the design is focused for the enjoyment of all listeners; not just one."
 
To answer your more basic question, many AVR and AVPs have a "bypass" option that removes all dsp/bass management etc. for pure 2 channel.
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5 hours ago, baszha said:

Is it possible to have a outstanding HT and Stereo system at the same time?  For stereo, what do I need to bypass the AVR with to get clean sound, be it..stereo receiver,pre/amp/ 2ch amp? Or do I just have to set up two complete systems one stereo, one HT?

It is possible to have both, many on here do it. I do it with the help of a Niles SPK-1 speaker switch, around $100. It lets me use the same speakers for HT and 2 channel. It switches from a HT AVR to a 2 channel pre/amp instantly.

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2 hours ago, Ceptorman said:

It is possible to have both, many on here do it. I do it with the help of a Niles SPK-1 speaker switch, around $100. It lets me use the same speakers for HT and 2 channel. It switches from a HT AVR to a 2 channel pre/amp instantly.

Thank you for your comment.  That's awesome!  So you run a 2ch. stereo pre/amp and amp separate from your HT AVR while using the same fronts from your HT?

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2 hours ago, Schu said:

I have the set up in question... an outstanding 2 channel system and a very very good 5.1 HT/5.1 music system. 

It is absolutely possible,  but you need to be prepared for some added expense and system finesse.

Thank you...That gives me hope in the event the system does not meet my standards when it,s complete. I don't mind the expense within reason.

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21 minutes ago, baszha said:

Thank you for your comment.  That's awesome!  So you run a 2ch. stereo pre/amp and amp separate from your HT AVR while using the same fronts from your HT?

Yes, that's exactly how it works. The speaker switch connects to a 12v trigger, I use the one on the AVR (the pre has a switch also) If I'm listening to 2 channel, then turn on the AVR to watch a movie, the AVR has priority, and the AVR uses the same speakers, the HT signal is off.

 

You could always just use the 2 channel sound from your AVR. My AVR is a few years old, and the pre/amp just sounds better for music.

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I also used the aforementioned Niles SPK switcher to switch between 2 channel / surround. Powering up the 2 channel pre-amp triggered the Niles. I used this method across the front using 3 Belles, KHorn / Belle and 3 Cornwall IIIs at different times. Top two and middle left was the 2 channel and the bottom two are the pre-pro and 7 channel amp. The Niles pictured only had the default amp channel "A" connected at the time. Different amps connected to left side "A" and right side "B". Left and right speakers connected to the L/R connection in the center.


 

DSC_0012.JPG

Niles switch.jpg

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10 hours ago, USNRET said:

I also used the aforementioned Niles SPK switcher to switch between 2 channel / surround. Powering up the 2 channel pre-amp triggered the Niles. I used this method across the front using 3 Belles, KHorn / Belle and 3 Cornwall IIIs at different times. Top two and middle left was the 2 channel and the bottom two are the pre-pro and 7 channel amp. The Niles pictured only had the default amp channel "A" connected at the time. Different amps connected to left side "A" and right side "B". Left and right speakers connected to the L/R connection in the center.


 

DSC_0012.JPG

Niles switch.jpg

Wow!!Nice set up!! Thanks for sharing

 

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I would take issue with the notion of a 2 channel being set - up for just 1 person. Live music is not for just a single person audience. Some systems work exclusively to a singular best sweet spot. They are ‘beamy’ and when you leave the sweet spot the quality of sound drops. This is not so with corner horns. You can have a sound stage with definition and it remains immersive and from another room sounds as though there’s a live performance in close proximity. Yes, I do run separate systems for AV and stereo mostly because of where I choose to deploy television versus music. I would think the 2 could be commingled if I chose to to so.

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2 minutes ago, Bosco-d-gama said:

I would take issue with the notion of a 2 channel being set - up for just 1 person. Live music is not for just a single person audience. Some systems work exclusively to a singular best sweet spot. They are ‘beamy’ and when you leave the sweet spot the quality of sound drops. This is not so with corner horns. You can have a sound stage with definition and it remains immersive and from another room sounds as though there’s a live performance in close proximity. Yes, I do run separate systems for AV and stereo mostly because of where I choose to deploy television versus music. I would think the 2 could be commingled if I chose to to so.

 

Live music and reproduced music are two things entirely, in many different ways. And any decently set up two channel music system will ALWAYS sound better at one particular spot in the room. That's not to say that some speakers don't have larger "sweet spots" than others, of course that's true. But move out of this zone and the sound will suffer.

 

Even though corner horns sound very good at any location in a room, they too will sound best in the optimum position.

 

Shakey

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1 hour ago, Shakeydeal said:

 

Live music and reproduced music are two things entirely, in many different ways. And any decently set up two channel music system will ALWAYS sound better at one particular spot in the room. That's not to say that some speakers don't have larger "sweet spots" than others, of course that's true. But move out of this zone and the sound will suffer.

 

Even though corner horns sound very good at any location in a room, they too will sound best in the optimum position.

 

Shakey

Two different things entirely is perhaps what you meant to say.  This has been my experience also.  It is possible and very desirable to focus one's system audibly almost like one focuses a lens visibly. If it's my goal to have optimum focus for 1 listening position for both 2 channel and multichannel (music and soundtracks with video),  I don't see why this isn't possible as long as the presence of the additional equipment in the room doesn't compromise the 2 channel experience.  In other words as long as the presence of the additional speakers, projector and especially screen don't limit the ability to achieve excellent 2 channel sound-field presence, continuity, depth, envelopment etc. and don't limit the the ability to achieve excellent 2 channel image focus.  I've learned that the presence, position, symmetry and absorbant, reflective, diffusive qualities of objects in the room should not be underestimated.

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15 minutes ago, Delicious2 said:

Two different things entirely is perhaps what you meant to say.  This has been my experience also.  It is possible and very desirable to focus one's system audibly almost like one focuses a lens visibly. If it's my goal to have optimum focus for 1 listening position for both 2 channel and multichannel (music and soundtracks with video),  I don't see why this isn't possible as long as the presence of the additional equipment in the room doesn't compromise the 2 channel experience.  In other words as long as the presence of the additional speakers, projector and especially screen don't limit the ability to achieve excellent 2 channel sound-field presence, continuity, depth, envelopment etc. and don't limit the the ability to achieve excellent 2 channel image focus.  I've learned that the presence, position, symmetry and absorbant, reflective, diffusive qualities of objects in the room should not be underestimated.

 

If the location of your speakers happens to flank your video screen (which it probably doesn't), you are golden for movies. But when you move the speakers farther apart (where they usually sound best for music) you are not getting the absolute best from the video experience. That one thing alone compromises one or the other to some extent. Pick which one you like and live with what you get with the other.

 

And this is not to mention a big ole honking screen between the speakers. Another kettle of fish........

 

Shakey

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  • 2 weeks later...
On ‎9‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 10:00 AM, Shakeydeal said:

 

If the location of your speakers happens to flank your video screen (which it probably doesn't), you are golden for movies. But when you move the speakers farther apart (where they usually sound best for music) you are not getting the absolute best from the video experience. That one thing alone compromises one or the other to some extent. Pick which one you like and live with what you get with the other.

 

And this is not to mention a big ole honking screen between the speakers. Another kettle of fish........

 

Shakey

Thanks Shakey for numerous things to think about. I would bet most HT set ups have speakers that are set up farther apart for music where room size permits with the thought of trying to broaden the soundstage for movies while increasing separation for front R/L speakers. The best of both worlds you might say, which in this case really is not completely possible. Room size, gear used, and experimentation and placement appear to be major players on how a HT and music system will sound. I am currently using RP-15 bookshelf speakers with a R10SW on my PC system pushing 55wpc on my speakers and 300watts for the sub and the sound is fantastic! I cant believe the sound coming from these speakers and it,s a PC system.  These Klipsch speakers sold me on my current set up which is still in the boxes they came in I am decorating the listening room now. My system is featuring 2RF-7lll,s 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1RC-64lll

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          2R115SW,s

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          2502,surrounds

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          DenonX4400HAVR

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         EMOTIVA XPA-5 GEN3-250wpc

I was hoping with this set up I will get the best possible HT sound as well as have the power to gas the 2 RF7-lll,s to their potential . I am new to all this and made my choices after much reading and question asking by people like yourself. My plan is a 5.2 system using the Emotiva pushing 250pch for the five speakers, and use the Denon as the pre/pro and twin subs. 

One more question while I have you here....When I go to set my system up and if I decide to use the calibration microphone rather than set it up manually will the calibration system set it up for optimum music playback or movies? Thanks for taking the time to read my long post, but asking questions is the only way I know how to learn something.

 

Gary

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On 9/24/2018 at 11:28 AM, baszha said:

Is it possible to have a outstanding HT and Stereo system at the same time?  For stereo, what do I need to bypass the AVR with to get clean sound, be it..stereo receiver,pre/amp/ 2ch amp? Or do I just have to set up two complete systems one stereo, one HT?

 

Of course!  But you won't do it with a $400 HT receiver.  BTW, it is unwise to assume Home theater components are somehow sonically inferior.  it would be impossible to have good sounding movies without also having good sounding music.  After all, what is the major part of a movie soundtrack? 

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On ‎10‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 12:13 PM, JohnA said:

 

Of course!  But you won't do it with a $400 HT receiver.  BTW, it is unwise to assume Home theater components are somehow sonically inferior.  it would be impossible to have good sounding movies without also having good sounding music.  After all, what is the major part of a movie soundtrack? 

Thank you for that thought John...you are right  absolutely!! Something I need to keep in mind.

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