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theArg

HELP - Marantz + Klipsch Configuration

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Hi there I have a Marantz SR-7010 receiver and I added the following speakers:

Floor standing Klipsch RP-280f 

Center Klipsch Rp-450c

Subwoofer Klipsch R-112SW

 

I run the marantz audyssey setup and then went manually to touch the central speaker and raise it up 5db more.

Im quite happy with the movie dialogs they sound crystal clear but I need to still tweak the subwoofer a little more.

I want a more tight punch.

 

My speakers are set to small and the crossovers are:

Rp-280f says fullband

central 40hz

and then in the sub config its LFE 120hz (at the back of the sub I have the auto OFF, phase to 0 and gain around 3/4db. that according to audyssey its 75db)

 

Any hint in how to configure correclty this set up for a tighter punch.

 

Room size is 20 square meters approx.

 

If you need any other detail let me know, thanks a lot

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For Home Theater try the settings for all of your speakers at 80Hz.  (I know just trust me). Also let the receiver set the sub cutoff again at 80Hz (don’t run the sub at 80 but put it as high as it goes.  Again the sub will be cut off per the Marantz.). 

 

Do this. Live with it a few days and don’t change it.  THEN get back to me.   I think you will be blown away.   

 

Now for straight two channel, of course,  run them full range.   

 

Trust me, then get back to the forum with your thoughts! 

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Most people who use Audyssey end up turning up volume on the subwoofer AFTER Audyssey calibration, using the knob on the sub itself, not the trim in the AVR (which sometimes has clipping problems).  I'd say the typical boost is 3 dB to as much as 9 dB (see below).

 

This is because of three factors:

  1. Audyssey is pretty conservative on the bass. 
  2. Recordings tend to have the bass attenuated (see Chris A's "The Missing Octave" on this forum).
  3. In listener preference tests, most people not only like some bass boost, but think that the system is playing flat when, in reality, the bass is boosted.  Audyssey still provides a great benefit, in that it is better to turn the bass up starting with a smooth curve, than to start with a kinky one.  As JBL says, people like their sound systems to be flat, as long as, unknown to them, there is a bit of a bump at about 60 Hz.

Here are a couple of typical, preferred, curves, resulting from lab studies.  My personal preference is to have the treble flat, but the bass boosted.  These curves both have too much treble cut for my taste.

image.png.ce7e0b94078999c19a5b973529cc28ca.png

image.png.b383b380f2b8972bcc72547aa2cbd3eb.png

The THX advice is to set all speakers to SMALL, and crossover to the sub at 80 Hz.  That will provide more headroom for your main channels, and let the subwoofer, with its built in amp, do the heavy lifting.

 

If you ever think you will measure your frequency response, don't use a cheap meter or a smart phone.  REW (online) is free, but you will need a USB mic that is calibrated (~~ $100).  Audyssey generally does an excellent job with its 8 mic positions, but the results will be different than with a single mic position!  Using 8 mic positions for REW, as well, and averaging the results makes for a closer match, but Audyssey would argue that its proprietary "fuzzy logic" technique (a good thing) is better.  At least 3 positions should be used for any technique, and always 8 for Audyssey XT or higher.  The reason 1 position is not good is that if the mic is moved just a little bit, considerably different results will be had.  That is why many audio mavens, including PWK, cautioned against using equalizers, unless necessary.  An average of several positions, tight in if you listen alone, or spread out a little more if you listen in pairs or more, is a good compromise.

 

Tight bass with a conventional subwoofer can be a challenge.  Horn loaded subwoofers are becoming more popular, partly because they can be tighter.  But turning up the sub can increase punch.

 

If you plan to run Audyssey again, read or skim this first. "Audyssey FAQ Linked Here"  It is clearly and vigorously written and better than any manual I've seen.

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Thats some detail there!!!! @garyrc I will definitely read the Audyssey FAQ and I will start by leavind the already reported audyssey values set in the AVR and raise up the gain in the sub from behind and check ;)

 

Thanks for the reply I will post back in a couple of days

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Hello,

you wrote : <snip> I run the marantz audyssey setup and then went manually to touch the central speaker and raise it up 5db more. 

Im quite happy with the movie dialogs they sound crystal clear <snip>

 

Did you alter the setting in the 'Speaker' set-up menu to achieve the +5dB ?

If so; I would suggest to use the 'Dialog Level Adjust' in the 'Audio' set up menu. This adjustment is specifically for that purpose and provides a range of -12dB to +12dB without upsetting the reference values of the Audyssey measurement.

 

jef

 

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Great write-up, guys! My system is very similar: RP280F x2, RP450C and an SVS SB-4000 sub with (for now) some cheap, anonymous rear surrounds. 

 

Very similar results, and I also push my bass up 3db or more depending on whether I am listening to the HDTV or real music. 

 

I am off to read the FAQ!  Thanks... 

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I’ve had this same issue with Audyssey. Make sure dynamic eq/volume is off. Also, Running Audyssey Flat instead of reference will help some. The $20 editor app will allow you to adjust the curve. I was able to recover most of my low end with the above, however it still rolls off below 25hz or so. This works for music but takes some of the fun out of movie watching.  

 

I’m going to experiment a little and see if stuffing the ports (2 R-115sw) while running Audyssey won’t trick it into not rolling off. 

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For more mid-bass punch raise the EQ in the 50-150 Hz range.

 

When setting EQ the rule of thumb is don't lower more than 6 db or raise it more than 3 db per octave.  I think raising more than 3 db per octave introduces more distortion and puts more of a demand on the amp.

 

The issue with getting mid-range punch is also you might be asking more of the amp than it has to give.  An 80 watt amp is not going to have as much dynamic power available for "punch" at higher SPL's as a 200 wpc amp.  If you need more horsepower get a bigger horse.

+++

 

Bass:  As usual @garyrc ^^^ directly upstream nailed it.  The only thing I might add is the notion that there is a difference between measured bass and PERCEIVED bass.  Audyssey will dial in your sub at 75 db but it doesn't sound as loud as your speakers do at 75 db.  Most of us then raise the bass level because we perceive it is not loud enough.  IMO it's OK to do this for the same reason you add salt to taste, it's personal preference.

 

I find I can raise the bass and get a clean sound more easily with my dual 15" subs than with my single 10".  The 10" gets muddy fast and the 15s seem to get louder without bloating the sound.  For me it's not "one size fits all."

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@IndyKlipschFan Ive tried the 80hz on all channels and I set the speakers to SMALL. I love how the central behaves in movies :) . Still im waiting to have some holidays and watch more hours of content. The few things I watched sounded great! I still need to check some scenes that have bass to determine if they sound tight. I watched a youtube channel were guy uses the audyssey to set the sub at 85 db and then lowers it from the AV to -11DB saying this will give more dynamism... can some one expand in this topic.... did someone test something similar?   

 

I have some days off by the end of the week I will report back.... going to watch Infinity wars, dead pool 2, dunkirk and Justice league... recommendation of movies to watch accepted :) 

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The newish Tron is still my my favorite thing to put on, when my Sonos friends think they have achieved “audio bliss”..

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5 hours ago, theArg said:

@IndyKlipschFan Ive tried the 80hz on all channels and I set the speakers to SMALL. I love how the central behaves in movies :) . Still im waiting to have some holidays and watch more hours of content. The few things I watched sounded great! I still need to check some scenes that have bass to determine if they sound tight. I watched a youtube channel were guy uses the audyssey to set the sub at 85 db and then lowers it from the AV to -11DB saying this will give more dynamism... can some one expand in this topic.... did someone test something similar?   

 

I have some days off by the end of the week I will report back.... going to watch Infinity wars, dead pool 2, dunkirk and Justice league... recommendation of movies to watch accepted :) 

Den of thieves, super 8, IT, a quiet place, clover field and haunted hill house on Netflix just to name a few 

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Dunkirks intro is awesome to show off punchy bass.  Also U-571 depth charge scenes and explosions will get you some good vibrations

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Hi all I had a cable RCA with 2 ends on both sides( So I was using only white one LFE on the sub to my pre out subwofer 1 black connector), today my 1 to 1 RCA calble arrived.

I want to check if I have it properly connected:  its connected from the back of the SUB in LFE exit to the marantz sub 1 entry. Then at the back of the Klipsch R-112SW I have the crossover to LFE, phase to 0º, power to auto and gain at 40/45 %. At the receiver bass options is LPF for LFE at 120hz.

Crossover individual for all at 80hz.

Thats correct?

 

 

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