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Bi-Amped K-Horn + K-402 horns w/ KPT-415 woofers


Khornukopia

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On 1/4/2019 at 6:43 AM, wvu80 said:

is that the stock AK crossover? 

 

Many of my speakers have the stock AK crossovers. They are good networks and mine have shiny copper wires showing through the clear insulation of the Monster cables as seen in the picture below.   The capacitors have been replaced. 

 

Some of the AK crossovers installed in some speakers may have the wire insulation that caused the copper to turn green and unfortunately, tarnished the reputation of the AK series.

 

IMG_3568.JPG.de30da257f63307012b2e45ee0b84724.JPG

What was wrong with your AK crossover that you would replace the entire network?

 

 

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In my case I replaced the excellent Type AA XO's with Crites A/4500 which dropped the XO point from 6 kHz to 4500 kHz, but we are talking about your Type AK. 

 

The AK's are not highly thought of, and by most reports I've read are probably the worse sounding XO's Klipsch ever made.  From what I've read they just don't sound crisp and clear, there should be some threads on that subject in this forum which explain more technically what the problem is. 

 

They have so few components which can be reused that Crites won't even rebuild them, he recommends replacing them.

 

Quote

 

In around 1983, we have the crossovers for the Klipschorn, LaScala, and Belle Klipsch becoming separate designs.  We have the AK for the Klipschorn, the AL for the LaScala and the AB for the Belle Klipsch.  At that point also, the Klipschorn crossover became a two section crossover with the woofer section mounted inside the woofer door.  We do not build the AK, AL, or AB crossovers since they are generally considered to be "not the best".  By around 1989, the design of these crossovers had changed (evolved) to the AK-3, AL-3 and AB-2 crossovers.  We do build those. 

 

... Here is a picture of our AK-3 crossover for the Klipschorn.  We recommend that the AK or AK-2 crossovers be replaced with the AK-3, Type AA or Type A/4500. ...

 

(bold and underline by wvu80)

 

https://critesspeakers.com/crossovers.html

 

 

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wvu80,

 

I have considered updating the capacitor values for the woofer, and converting the AK into the reputedly better AK-3, but the speakers sound very clear, smooth and powerful the way they are already.

 

I believe that the AK was partly disparaged in the past by people who did not realize that a section of the crossover network was concealed inside the woofer compartment. I think that Bob Crites may have said the two piece design was confusing for some customers, so he designed his one piece crossover to simplify the installation of his replacement part.

 

There was also a treble section aftermarket upgrade available, from another source, which left the woofer components intact within the woofer door, but people were somehow mixing up the instructions of the two different designs, causing more complications.  Then the AK's reputation suffered the snowball effect of people perpetuating comments they read in the past.

 

I have another pair of speakers that have digital active crossovers, which I prefer, but I still like the AK's.

 

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

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16 minutes ago, Khornukopia said:

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

I've never heard the Type AK, I was just passing along what I've read.

 

You might be interested in reading the technical reasons why the AK is not a good XO.  It has something to do with the XO's which were produced after PWK no longer had a hand in how they were designed, specifically dropping the autoformer.  Apparently the new designer made changes which were not technically good.

 

I know I'm not explaining that well but there are some threads which do explain better, if you can find them, or maybe @Deang can explain with more clarity.  I've not have good luck using the search features on the forums to find just what I want.

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18 minutes ago, wvu80 said:

You might be interested in reading the technical reasons why the AK is not a good XO.  It has something to do with the XO's which were produced after PWK no longer had a hand in how they were designed, specifically dropping the autoformer.

 

 

There is a part on here that looks a lot like an autoformer.

 

1453294283_P1020856-Copy(2).JPG.79372183904f96c1ce6eb081fe516518.JPG

 

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21 minutes ago, wvu80 said:

You might be interested in reading the technical reasons why the AK is not a good XO.  It has something to do with the XO's which were produced after PWK no longer had a hand in how they were designed, specifically dropping the autoformer.  Apparently the new designer made changes which were not technically good.

 

The AK and AK-2 have the midrange 6dB down. It makes sense that many would like this. The actual designs are solid. I believe Jim Hunter was largely responsible for them. The midrange is slammed off hard above 5kHz, and the tweeter leg is technically steep slope. Both networks use an autoformer. I believe the AK-3 is 4dB down - I can't remember right off hand. I don't know if PWK was still involved in day to day operations back then, but he was definitely still around.

 

The AK-4 was the first Klipschorn crossover without an autoformer. It was designed by Roy. It's also a solid design. Steeper slopes, and a lot of work probably went into the low pass section, which pulls down the large bell shaped response. Roy moved away from the autoformer because he didn't like the phase issues associated with it.

 

It comes down to a matter of taste. I mean, it takes a lot of work to make a Klipschorn sound bad.

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2 hours ago, Khornukopia said:
2 hours ago, wvu80 said:

...specifically dropping the autoformer.

There is a part on here that looks a lot like an autoformer.

 

I saw where Dean weighed in and gave a more coherent explanation and some of the backstory.  I knew there was a story but I shouldn't have even tried to explain when I lacked so many of the accurate details. 

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  • 1 month later...
5 hours ago, richieb said:

 

=== I was gonna brag that I plan to use RB75’s in the garage once the warmer weather hits, if ever. Seeing this leaves no room to brag - although the 75’s with a 50 watt chip amp should do quite nicely. 

And a sub!

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...

Out in the garage, the left speaker is still equipped with the original parts, while the right speaker has been modified with the 2" aftermarket horn (pictured a few posts ago, painted brown, and right below) close-outs from Parts Express that @longdrive03 posted about several months ago, and the Crites CT-125 tweeter. I want to run some comparison measurements when I have time to move some motorcycles and tools out of the way, but for now the balance between the 2 channels is good enough to appreciate the fact that a factory stock Klipschorn is a great sounding speaker. 

 

IMG_3168.JPG.ca2126b9d00024e9f7cf272f7f835f49.JPG

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