Mark51 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 I have two sets of old Klipsch speakers - KG4's and Forte 1. I know that electrolytic capacitors go bad with age but I have never heard that the other types go bad with age and should be replaced. Is there any real point in replacing non electrolytic type capacitors in a crossover, unless you want a higher quality, perhaps better sounding cap? What is your experience before I start this project? Its cheap to replace a few electrolytic capacitors. Not so much regarding the others. Let's say the electrolytic is out of spec? Does replacing it really make a difference in the sound? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 leakage... it's not liquid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 Plastic caps generally last a very long time. So if you don't want to you don't need to replace them. That said if your caps are 20 or more years old then even if you replace them with new equally cheap caps the modern cheap caps will sound and perform better. If you replace them with modern good to above average quality caps you can expect a more pronounced improvement in performance. Your call to improve or not. You asking others what the improvement is like is pretty much a waste of time and if you want to get some kind of idea you would better spend your time doing an upgrade yourself on a simple network like a two way and listen for yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark51 Posted October 2, 2018 Author Share Posted October 2, 2018 1 hour ago, Schu said: leakage... it's not liquid. I blew an electrolytic in a power supply once and believe me liquid came out. It made a big noise too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 the term leakage refers to capacitance leakage and not of the electrolytic inside of the can. So the can may well be solid and not leaking out any internal electrolyte or oil in the case of an oil filled cap but it can still be termed a leaky cap so far as capacitance goes. Hope that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wdecho Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 Moray James is correct. Most modern electrolytic caps are not oil filled anymore. Leakage has to do with how a electrolytic works and is made and it breaks down over time. Electrolytic caps have enabled everyone to have high capacitance caps are reasonable prices. Google electrolytic caps is you want to know the specifics of an electrolytic capacitor. They do break down over time but many times they last decades before going bad. Expected life expectancy in stressful power supply circuits is 15 years. The old Klipsch X-overs used oil filled film caps (motor run caps) that are oil filled to keep them cool in high current environments. Hardly a stressful environment in a X-over. If one has the equipment you can check ESR of film caps and the ones I have checked in old test equipment still tested per spec after decades of use. Film caps last much longer than many on this forum want to admit. If it sounds OK to you my advice is leave old film caps alone in X-overs. It is hit or miss whether you will like the sound after replacement. Caps do sound different and that is what most hear when they exclaim an improvement, not that there was anything wrong with the ones they replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave A Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 I have a good test meter and all the old oil filled caps I have measured may be OK for capacitance but the ESR is bad to very bad. Older film caps I have tested the vast majority have higher ESR than new production ones do. I have never regretted recapping crossovers and do so every time I get a set of speakers in to work on. I only work on things from say the mid 90's and older though. Re-capping is the cheapest significant upgrade you can make on those Fortes if you can do it yourself and don't buy expensive caps. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wdecho Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 The opposite of what I have found. I just recapped an old HP distortion amplifier that some of the electrolytic caps had failed but the film caps tested fine after 40 or more years, capacitance and ESR. Not old oil filled motor run caps but film caps none the less. Nothing wrong with replacing capacitors in crossovers but I would advice saving the old ones in case you do not care for the outcome of replacement. Many do not. After replacing with one name brand one can then change to another brand of the same capacitance and if your hearing is good enough tell a difference in the sound between brands. By the way, most all the paper in oil film caps touted as superior on this forum have poor ESR numbers when new. Maybe the reason they are said to sound so good because of the extra attenuation of the mids or highs depending on which they are used on. Same as the old oil filled motor run caps touted as needing replacement by many here. I do agree with Dave A about not wasting money on expensive capacitors thinking they will sound drastically better. They will not, only different in subtle ways. Same thing can be achieved with good reasonably priced brands. I see chasing better sound with boutique capacitors with those doing the same with expensive power cords or expensive speaker wires. If you have money to waste, go for it but I say use some plain old common sense when spending money. As my Dad use to say, money does not have eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budman Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 what i don't understand is why do you care if i spend a little extra money on Deans crossovers. its my money. your trying to convince people that we cannot hear as good as you and you want us to save our money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 Argumentative posts have been deleted. I suggest you two take it to PM if you'd like to continue this particular discussion. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muel Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 Gee Whiz! Don't tell me what I should pay or not. I buy, I try, if I like, I share with others here. The cost doesn't always relate to how much improvement I experience. I've done really cheap things that had huge improvements and spent tons for little to no improvement. Don't discourage people from sharing their experiences here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimbo Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 45 minutes ago, muel said: Gee Whiz! Don't tell me what I should pay or not. I buy, I try, if I like, I share with others here. The cost doesn't always relate to how much improvement I experience. I've done really cheap things that had huge improvements and spent tons for little to no improvement. Don't discourage people from sharing their experiences here. Right on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 With the exception of a handful, all of the old capacitors that Bob has tested over the years are bad. Doesn't matter if they're the Mylar in oil cans or the metalized epoxy coated oval Mylars. The lead terminations are poor, and oxidation from moisture creep and air raises the ESR to unacceptable levels. An over simplistic view of capacitor construction isn't educational or helpful. Superior materials and construction improve measurements, reliability, longevity, and sound. There is nothing "magical" about it. As for cost, better built stuff just costs more. Film and foils, regardless of manufacturer, are expensive. The Jupiter especially, costs more than it should, but it's an impressive product. btw, they are not PIO. I sent one or two to Bob once to measure and test, and he said ESR was very low. The capacitor is fully protected, and like all true film types, the leads are soldered (not pushed in using a conductive paste). 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wdecho Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 4 hours ago, CECAA850 said: Argumentative posts have been deleted. I suggest you two take it to PM if you'd like to continue this particular discussion. It is one thing I fully understand, old members get another type of consideration than the rest. Dean can continue to post his BS but my post get deleted. Understandable coming from you CECAA850 from our history and the insults you have posted about me in the past. Heavily biased moderators. The truth is posted and gets deleted but the BS goes on and on. See above post. I appeal your biased deletion to the other moderators along with administrator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wdecho Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 Other members can post tidbits of my deleted post without seeing my whole response to Dean's insult. Not what I call fair and justifiable moderating. I disagree with Carl's friend and it get's deleted but Dean can keep posting how much better his choice of capacitors in the Crossover's he sells sound so much better than any others. Not unexpected from certain biased moderators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wdecho Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 deleted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wdecho Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 4 hours ago, jimjimbo said: Right on. Another long time member with many post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wdecho Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 5 hours ago, muel said: Gee Whiz! Don't tell me what I should pay or not. I buy, I try, if I like, I share with others here. The cost doesn't always relate to how much improvement I experience. I've done really cheap things that had huge improvements and spent tons for little to no improvement. Don't discourage people from sharing their experiences here. My response to your criticism of my post got deleted but because it might offend Carl's friend. Spend your money any way you choose my friend. I could really care less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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