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advocation

New Set of Klipsch speakers, not "crisp" at high frequencies

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Hello all,

 

This is my first post and the first time trying to explain this, so please go easy on me. I just got a new set of klipsch speakers setup in my home, and to me they don't sound "crisp" at anything on the high end/frequency. So mainly this would be dialog, and appears to happen across all my speakers, not just the center (I can hear the same problem when something is in stereo). It's almost as if there is a slight muffle or buzz to the sound when someone is talking. No issues on the low end or with bass. Here is my setup:
 

RP-280F

RC-62ii

R14M

R-2650-Cii

R10SW

Denon X1300W

 

So I know off-hand that my receiver is not fully up to par on the speakers. I originally had this hooked up to some cheaper speakers from a home theater in a box setup, and while the sound was lacking, I didn't have problem with dialog or what I'm seeing with the Klipsch. My question is, is it the receiver that could be causing these issues because they are not able to produce enough wattage? I notice the issue no matter what volume level they are set at. I have ran the Audyssey setup, as well as tried to manually adjust the speakers but nothing seems to help.

 

Any suggestions?

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Welcome to the forum. One thing would be to let the electronics settle in and open up. With or without the audessy calibration, your ears and perception will change imo after a few days. The Denon should be adequate for the time being would think. Re-running audessy meanwhile will help past the time. Good fortune and others will see this post so, congrats on a desirable set of Klipsch.

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Welcome to the madness.  Your avr is ok.  You are talking about the Hi's and being crisp.  Describe the room and room furnishing.  I will let some others help you tweak the auto correction software.  Give it a bit of time and other will help to work it out.

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Thanks for the replies so far.

 

My room is fairly open. Size is roughly 20x20 with 8 foot ceilings. There isn't much actually in the way for furniture right now, so there is the potential for some type of echo in the room. My HT area sits in about 10x10 of this room (living room) and the other space is open.

Edited by advocation

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45 minutes ago, advocation said:

My question is, is it the receiver that could be causing these issues because they are not able to produce enough wattage? I notice the issue no matter what volume level they are set at. I have ran the Audyssey setup, as well as tried to manually adjust the speakers but nothing seems to help...Any suggestions?

Power is usually not a real issue--Klipsch loudspeakers are always very efficient for their size.  But there could be an issue with your AVP/amplifiers or AVR not related to "having enough power".

 

In my experience, this is likely related to Audyssey and what it is giving you. I recommend turning off the EQ and dynamic EQ portions, then listening to the overall balance in order to eliminate Audyssey as a cause (as you've indicated that you've done).  Apparently most or all versions of Audyssey don't show you the EQ applied or the loudness-based EQ changes (i.e., "dynamic EQ", a.k.a., "loudness") so the only way to eliminate it as a problem source is to turn off its EQ effects.

 

If you still have an issue, then a second probable cause would be room acoustics.  If you could post a picture of your setup and room, perhaps some diagnostics or other constructive suggestions might be possible.  A square room can be a real problem, especially if little or no absorption is used, and will always create problems in coverage and nulls the low frequency bands, which could also affect how Audyssey is trying to "automatically" set up your EQ and loudness.

 

Third, make sure that all channels are behaving in the same manner by selectively turning off the center channel, then left, then right, checking to see if there is any one channel that seems to be adding to the problem disproportionately.  I would do all of this without the subwoofer channel being active.

 

What crossover frequency to your subs are you using?  Is it 80 Hz?

 

Chris

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1 hour ago, advocation said:

It's almost as if there is a slight muffle or buzz to the sound when someone is talking

Welcome.  You have a good set of speakers and others who have that set have not mentioned the lack of highs you describe.  I think you ought to be able to get those speakers playing to your satisfaction.  I'll try not to repeat the other excellent observations ^^^ but I'd like to hit the highlights.

 

Break-in@billybob hit on that immediately, so add my vote to his.  No special break-in is needed, just play them normally (and loud occasionally) for a week or so and see if the sound opens up.  I think it will.

 

AVR:  I don't know that particular Denon 1300 but Denon is known to work and sound well with Klipsch.  That being said, a higher end AVR with more power will likely help the sound but I don't think the Denon is the problem with the lack of HF sound you've described.  A lack of power is not going to be the problem either, IMO.

 

Audyssey@Chris A commented on this and I agree with this too.  By design the Audyssey curve will roll off the highs for Theater Mode.  This is subtle and is intended to give the listener a pleasant listening experience at the expense of intense high frequencies.  I don't think Audyssey should be making dialog "muffled or buzz'd" as you describe.  Chris' suggestions test the speakers one at a time is a good one.

 

My bottom line is to suggest you play the speakers and let them break-in naturally.  I would think a week would do it and at the end of a month they are going to be the way they will be for years.  If you are still having the muffled sound and especially the buzz after a week let us know and I think we can walk you through some very specific trouble shooting.

 

Until then, enjoy and congratulations on your new Klipsch speakers!

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I run a Denon 1200 and Do Not use room correction and mine sounds fine.

It's your settings.

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Lot of good comments already with speaker "break-in" & potential Audyssey self correction (over correction) issues.

 

If you have one, grab your (Radio Shack) old school analog SPL meter & run straight up manual set up using that approach for a quick comparison. 

 

That said, rather hard pressed (or rare) to have a Klipsch speakers suffer on the high end.

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So I tried to reset the speaker config to default, and shut off any and all EQ's that I could find in the config. Unfortunately, the issue still persisted. I re-ran the Audyssey setup, and no change their either. I do notice that the issue is worse at higher volume levels (note that its very noticeable at a normal listening level). I'm not positive it's just the highs anymore, but that's when I notice and can hear it the most. The best way is to say it's not crisp, almost a buzz on the notes...it's hard to explain and i'm having a tough time trying to find examples? Other things I have tried:

 

* I have moved the receiver to it's own source power away from the rest of the entertainment center.

* I unplugged all speakers from the wall plate including my subwoofer (my speakers go from the receiver to the wall plate, then out to each speaker) and plugged them in one at a time, and the issue followed every speaker. I didn't unplug them directly from the back of the receiver since it's hard to get too, but I can do this if someone thinks that's needed as well. 

* I tried to shut off all channels and turn them on one by one (l/r, center, sub, rear surround, top surround) and no change.

 

I included a video so that maybe it'll make it more clear what I mean (near the end of the video is the best example), although of course it's not as easy to tell as in person. I had the volume up louder than normal, as it's easier to hear that way: 

 

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This is what is happening when others talk about "break-in" period: 

On ‎10‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 11:00 AM, billybob said:

With or without the audessy calibration, your ears and perception will change imo after a few days.

Some think it's about the actual sound changing. :) 

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because I know the R14Ms don't have dual binding posts, how do they sound?

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20 hours ago, advocation said:

I included a video so that maybe it'll make it more clear what I mean (near the end of the video is the best example),

I clearly hear the distortion.  IMO it's NOT:

  • Audyssey
  • Speaker
  • A lack of power
  • Room
  • Break-in

It sounds like there is something between the source and the AVR introducing distortion.  Your speakers are playing exactly the signal they are being fed.  Some back-to-the basics troubleshooting is needed to find the problem. 

 

Minimize your system and work with a single speaker.  Disconnect all other speakers.

Double check your speaker wires to make sure there are no loose wires touching each other

Find a source that you know works.  Don't use your Iphone, don't use Spotify (or whatever) and don't use Bluetooth.  Start with a quality CD player with a CD that you know works.  You might use the FM tuner as a source if you don't have access to a CD player or turntable.

 

If you can hook up another AVR or receiver that will help eliminate the AVR as a variable. 

 

My guess is it's going to be the source or Bluetooth. 

 

I feel very sure you can find the source of the problem.  It will just take some patience and some work.  Those Klipsch speakers ought to sound outstanding, crystal clear with NO distortion at normal SPL.

 

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that sounds like PS4 menu music....  how is the sound configured on it?  do other sources sound like this?

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2 hours ago, wvu80 said:

I clearly hear the distortion.  IMO it's NOT:

  • Audyssey
  • Speaker
  • A lack of power
  • Room
  • Break-in

It sounds like there is something between the source and the AVR introducing distortion.  Your speakers are playing exactly the signal they are being fed.  Some back-to-the basics troubleshooting is needed to find the problem. 

 

Minimize your system and work with a single speaker.  Disconnect all other speakers.

Double check your speaker wires to make sure there are no loose wires touching each other

Find a source that you know works.  Don't use your Iphone, don't use Spotify (or whatever) and don't use Bluetooth.  Start with a quality CD player with a CD that you know works.  You might use the FM tuner as a source if you don't have access to a CD player or turntable.

 

If you can hook up another AVR or receiver that will help eliminate the AVR as a variable. 

 

My guess is it's going to be the source or Bluetooth. 

 

I feel very sure you can find the source of the problem.  It will just take some patience and some work.  Those Klipsch speakers ought to sound outstanding, crystal clear with NO distortion at normal SPL.

 

 

Thanks for the reply. It currently happens with all sources, the PS4 is just the most noticeable. This was a PS4, audio is through a single HDMI cable from the PS4 to the receiver which I will swap out and use as my test. I'm going to work on disconnecting all sources and speakers and try one at a time...Might be a few days before I can report back.

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3 hours ago, wvu80 said:

I clearly hear the distortion.  IMO it's NOT:

  • Audyssey
  • Speaker
  • A lack of power
  • Room
  • Break-in

It sounds like there is something between the source and the AVR introducing distortion.  Your speakers are playing exactly the signal they are being fed.  Some back-to-the basics troubleshooting is needed to find the problem. 

 

Minimize your system and work with a single speaker.  Disconnect all other speakers.

Double check your speaker wires to make sure there are no loose wires touching each other

Find a source that you know works.  Don't use your Iphone, don't use Spotify (or whatever) and don't use Bluetooth.  Start with a quality CD player with a CD that you know works.  You might use the FM tuner as a source if you don't have access to a CD player or turntable.

 

If you can hook up another AVR or receiver that will help eliminate the AVR as a variable. 

 

My guess is it's going to be the source or Bluetooth. 

 

I feel very sure you can find the source of the problem.  It will just take some patience and some work.  Those Klipsch speakers ought to sound outstanding, crystal clear with NO distortion at normal SPL.

 

 

Sorry for the quick second reply, but it was bugging me so I did some testing. I factory reset my Denon. Removed all inputs except the one to the PS4 including my ARC output. Plugged in a single speaker using a new wire, same issue. Tried a different input, tried a different speaker, used a different speaker cable without banana plugs, and used a new HDMI cable as well as tested using a different source...issue still followed.

 

Hooking up the el cheapo speaker, and while they sound like shit, it doesn't have this issue. Yet, it follows every single klipsch speaker I have. Here is the cheap one: 

https://www.cnet.com/products/panasonic-sc-pt960/specs/

 

I'm not sure what else to do/try?

 

EDIT - Maybe I do very slightly hear it on the cheap speaker as well. Maybe they were so shitty that it wasn't as noticeable as it is on the better speakers. AVR problem?

Edited by advocation
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20 minutes ago, advocation said:

I'm not sure what else to do/try?

Your testing methods sound thorough and systematic.  My conclusion after all that would be bad speakers, except I can't wrap my head around that.  Three bad speakers?  It sounds unlikely.

 

We get hundreds of comments from people who have the same speakers and none report the distortion I clearly heard on your recording, which of course is un-listenable and unacceptable.  So what am I missing?

 

It's a stretch but if the AVR was bad it could be the cheaper speakers aren't playing the distortion and the highly sensitive Klipsch speakers are, but that's kind of a long shot.

 

Is there any way you can test the speakers on someone else's AVR or even a simple receiver with an FM source?  If the speakers sounded bad on a different amp I would have to conclude the speakers are the problem.

 

Break-in:  I didn't address the speaker break-in issue but I don't think that's the problem.  I've heard speakers with pro woofers which were very stiff when new that sounded bad and then loosened up with playing, but there was no distortion, it was just a thin sounding bass.  Tweeters also can also need some breaking in but they should loosen up with just a couple of listening sessions.  I just wanted to mention that.

 

I'm going to listen to your video again.  It's such a specific distortion, I wish we had someone more familiar with such things to listen and try to pinpoint the cause.

 

Edit:  I just listened another half dozen times.  I am hearing some breakup in the tweeter, almost like it is trying to play some HF material it isn't capable of.  Can you put your ear to the tweeter AND woofer and see exactly where the sound is coming from?

 

Also, you might want to send that video to Klipsch tech support and get their opinion on what is happening.

 

 

 

 

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I know someone mentioned jumpers earlier, and I know that's the first thing that the OP probably checked, but was it confirmed that the speakers were properly wired?

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2 minutes ago, Ceptorman said:

I know someone mentioned jumpers earlier, and I know that's the first thing that the OP probably checked, but was it confirmed that the speakers were properly wired? 

Mr. @advocation was very specific about swapping out cables, speaker wire and source inputs.

 

I think you might be wondering if wires to the speakers could have been connected + to +, or - to -.  Related, if the jumpers were not connected a full range audio sound would not be heard. 

 

Advocation seems like he knows what he's doing but it's worth a double check.  There has got to be a logical reason he is having this distortion with three separate brand new speakers.

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16 minutes ago, wvu80 said:

Your testing methods sound thorough and systematic.  My conclusion after all that would be bad speakers, except I can't wrap my head around that.  Three bad speakers?  It sounds unlikely.

 

We get hundreds of comments from people who have the same speakers and none report the distortion I clearly heard on your recording, which of course is un-listenable and unacceptable.  So what am I missing?

 

It's a stretch but if the AVR was bad it could be the cheaper speakers aren't playing the distortion and the highly sensitive Klipsch speakers are, but that's kind of a long shot.

 

Is there any way you can test the speakers on someone else's AVR or even a simple receiver with an FM source?  If the speakers sounded bad on a different amp I would have to conclude the speakers are the problem.

 

I'm going to listen to your video again.  It's such a specific distortion, I wish we had someone more familiar with such things to listen and try to pinpoint the cause.

 

Break-in:  I didn't address the speaker break-in issue but I don't think that's the problem.  I've heard speakers with pro woofers which were very stiff when new that sounded bad and then loosened up with playing, but there was no distortion, it was just a thin sounding bass.  Tweeters also can also need some breaking in but they should loosen up with just a couple of listening sessions.  I just wanted to mention that.

 

 

 

 

 

I tested with a few more cheap speakers, I can clearly hear it on them as well. I actually have 7 brand new klipsch speakers in my system, so I highly doubt it's them. Unfortunately I just gave away both my old receivers thinking I'd never need them again.

 

6 minutes ago, Ceptorman said:

I know someone mentioned jumpers earlier, and I know that's the first thing that the OP probably checked, but was it confirmed that the speakers were properly wired?

 

I'm testing with a single cable and single speaker right now. I also tested using a new wire between the speaker and avr.

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