Delicious2 Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 Thought this might be interesting. Mark F who sold me the 305s and BMS drivers suggested this thread since not many have tried this. I've enjoyed 1990 Khorns modded with Eliptrac mids and ALK universal xovers for some years now, but, have been salivating over the K402 horn. I only recently found out that the midbass KPT-305s use a K402 so when I saw Mark F (Mark1101) was selling a pair I had to have them and find a way to ship from GA to MA. uShip turned out to be a good way to get small freight carriers to notice my need and I lucked out with a independent 1 man with a truck and great communication/help from Mark F to make it happen. Big thanks upfront to ChrisA for making this possible with great support for this first time active xover guy. Chris happened to be testing the BMS 4592 coax on his MEH 402 just as I was needing those settings. How cool is that? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delicious2 Posted October 3, 2018 Author Share Posted October 3, 2018 I thought at first that the 305s were about 145lbs each but that's probably the weight of the pair. These are big and bulky but not too heavy for two capable people and not bad to wrestle around by myself once the horn was removed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delicious2 Posted October 4, 2018 Author Share Posted October 4, 2018 Xovers which came with BMS drivers may be used in future. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delicious2 Posted October 4, 2018 Author Share Posted October 4, 2018 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delicious2 Posted October 4, 2018 Author Share Posted October 4, 2018 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delicious2 Posted October 4, 2018 Author Share Posted October 4, 2018 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delicious2 Posted October 4, 2018 Author Share Posted October 4, 2018 Now if I can just get Klipsch to sell me the 402 base/stands I could secure them and fine tune the aiming.😁 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delicious2 Posted October 4, 2018 Author Share Posted October 4, 2018 Disassembly of the 305s was straightforward except the horn wouldn't come loose once all fasteners were removed. I let them sit for 1 hour and the factory seal must have relaxed since then they could be removed by reaching into the front and pulling by the input hole. Mounting the 402s on the bass bin wasn't too tough once I realized that the tweeter baffles/stands I made for the K77s were the right height to support the horn/driver and tilt the horn slightly down to compensate for the 52" on center height vs. more around 30" which would be better for my 13' LP/ear height. Ordinary clamps work well to hold the lip against the bin step temporarily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delicious2 Posted October 4, 2018 Author Share Posted October 4, 2018 Hookup of the Xilica 4080 was basic also once I confirmed that it goes between the pre/pro and amps and obtained the balanced to SE adapters - 2 RCA female to XLR female for the inputs and 6 XLR male to RCA female for the outputs. Sourced these locally at Guitar Center. ChrisA then made the programming/tuning easy by providing his initial settings for the Xilica based on his testing of the BMS driver on his MEH. What a great guy and resource to the community that he then went back and forth with me numerous times in email getting the UMIK-1 mic placement and floor padding correct then patiently through 5 iterative rounds of measuring, analyzing, changing and measuring again. I'm pretty computer literate so the basics of REW and Xconsole came easily to me but without Chris I'd be lost when it came to analyzing what I had measured and knowing what to adjust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delicious2 Posted October 4, 2018 Author Share Posted October 4, 2018 Tri-amping at the moment is VTL TT monoblocks in triode mode on the bass bins, FirstWatt SIT2 on the mids and a cheapy Trends 10.2 integrated on the tweets. Preamp duty is with my trusty NuForce AVP16 recently retired from the HT in favor of the Anthem AVM60. Sources include an Oppo 103D, AudioQuest DragonFly 1.2 from a MacPro (mostly playing Tidal) and if I get a notion for digging out some of my old vinyl a Basis 1200 TT. I'm getting ready to build a pair of the AmpCamp 1.6 kits so those will get mixed in if I'm successful (first amp build and no longer very steady hands...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 One comment that I should make (and pardon me, Mark, for tooting your horn for you): In the past there was the notion that the Khorn SPL bass bin rolled off at a lower frequency than what you wanted in order to use a 2" compression driver on the K-402 horn (the crossover frequency being 450 Hz in my experience). I was amazed to see that the crossover filter settings for the Jubilee bass bin exactly matched those I used for Mark's Khorn bass bins. In the end, the performance is truly spectacular using the BMS 4592ND drivers, thus making this configuration a tri-amped 3-way. Note the 1 dB vertical scale resolution below and the flatness of the phase plot relative to the minimum phase curve: So the bottom line is that if you want a major upgrade from your Khorns in terms their sound, a pair of K-402 horns with a good 2" compression drivers and one DSP crossover (bi-amping) will certainly get you there--and at an extremely reasonable price. This is the most major upgrade that you can make in sound to your Khorns, and will put your loudspeakers into a class that is not touched by any other loudspeakers costing even more than 10x as much (and I'm not sure that the sound quality in-room can actually be met by any other loudspeakers except Jubilees). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 By the way, that's much better phase performance than "brand x" multiple entry horns... You should get the same uncanny smoothness, clarity, and accuracy as brand X and have a full 90 degrees of coverage from 31 Hz to 20 kHz. This is certainly something to hear. Chris 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 I missed the cat sleeping peacefully... My border collies also like to snooze right in front of the Jub bass bin center panels. I suppose it's actually a little quieter there than at the listening positions. Directivity has spillover benefits, it seems. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornukopia Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 Interesting to see pictures of a K-402 horn sitting on top of a Klipschorn bass bin. The measured responses look good. Your music should sound excellent. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 This is great. I'm glad this all worked out. Question: The 305 boxes were no good to set on the bass bins? I figured having those boxes would be a plus. I guess too big? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delicious2 Posted October 8, 2018 Author Share Posted October 8, 2018 31 minutes ago, mark1101 said: This is great. I'm glad this all worked out. Question: The 305 boxes were no good to set on the bass bins? I figured having those boxes would be a plus. I guess too big? Yeah, too big for the Khorn bass bins. I'm thinking they may get used down in the mancave/HT if I can get another set of 402s. They would be killer L and R behind my AT 140" scope screen either on top of some other bass bins or (dare I hope) converted to MEH!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 Those are some big boxes!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 20 hours ago, Coytee said: Those are some big boxes!! Well, they're bigger than the plan view of the Khorn bass bin, but not as big as an entire Khorn. For the acoustic performance upgrade that you're getting, I believe it's a small price...indeed. Chris 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delicious2 Posted October 9, 2018 Author Share Posted October 9, 2018 And the best news is that you don't even have to deal with these boxes to get this upgrade. Anyone can buy the K402 horns with K691 drivers and base/stands and do this! I'm glad I went this way because I'll find another use for the boxes, but, it's surprisingly easy to do this relatively inexpensively without them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 7 hours ago, Chris A said: Well, they're bigger than the plan view of the Khorn bass bin, but not as big as an entire Khorn. For the acoustic performance upgrade that you're getting, I believe it's a small price...indeed. So instead of honk..... you're getting GOOD honk on steroids! I can live with that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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