New ? Bass / midbass on 2 way speaker setup

[joessportster]

Putting a 2 way system together and am curious about which would be best when thinking crossover point.

 

Do you cross over high enough to include midbass and bass on 1 driver while sending everything above midbass to the top full range driver ?  Generally speaking midbass is 500Hz & below (according to internet search) so In theory if I cross at 500HZ I have mid bass and bass on my low drivers, and everything above 500HZ going to the full range driver.

 

Or would you crossover lower to leave everything from midbass up going to fullrange and have the bass only on the low end driver ?

 

Driver abilities are not an issue either way because 1 is full range and the low driver is good up to 3.5K.

 

If I am not mistaken Klipsch crosses in the 400 area (K-Horn) which would include SOME midbass going to the mid driver and to the woofer Perhaps this is better for coherence ?

 

Crossing at 500Hz does offer better impact, Not sure I like the overall sound yet though.........

 

Thoughts ? 

 

I plan to play with the points as I know in the end my ears will decide but a starting reference point would be nice.

[Rudy81]

I would shoot to make the crossover point as low as possible, thereby allowing the full range driver to do as much as possible without the interference of a crossover and issues associated with two drivers operating in the crossover range.  In my case, I have a non-conventional 3 way system.  The HF driver is in an Oris horn which rolls off at 150Hz.  I chose a 300Hz crossover to have plenty of hf performance before the horn ran into roll-off territory.  So, my HF driver goes from 20kHz to 300Hz.  The OB H frame drivers go from 300Hz to 80Hz.  From 80Hz to 20Hz I use my RSW-15s in order to get a true 20Hz-20kHz capability. I have not found a better way to do it.  For LFE I use 4 huge ported full Marty subs with 18" drivers. 

 

As we all know, in an ideal world, you would use a single driver for the entire frequency range and avoid any crossovers. However, that unicorn doesn't exist AFAIK. 

 

Your ears will be the ultimate judge, but I submit you will be better served with the full range driver covering the largest possible portion of the audio frequency spectrum.

[derrickdj1]

A good MBM is to be used nearfield with a sub in a corner as an example.  Set the MBM 50-200 Hz.  

[wvu80]

33 minutes ago, derrickdj1 said:

A good MBM is to be used nearfield with a sub in a corner as an example.  Set the MBM 50-200 Hz.  

I've seen MBM's from DIYSoundgroup.com and I think they use a woofer as opposed to a sub driver.

 

Since most subs can play as high as 200 Hz wouldn't that be a viable choice for MBM mid-bass SLAM duty?

 

Or if you had a pair of subs like my Ultimax 15's with an Inuke 3000dsp, why couldn't I program both in different low bass and sub bass frequencies like you laid out directly above?  The Umax 15 looks flat from 50 Hz to 500 Hz.

https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-um15-22-15-ultimax-dvc-subwoofer-2-ohms-per-coil--295-514

 

I think the Marantz 6011 can use the sub pre-out and cross at 200 Hz.

 

I'm sure it's not a good idea as I've never heard of anyone doing that, I'm just curious "why."

[derrickdj1]

Joe brought up a good topic.  I know of people that have used the PA 460  and UM 18 for MBM.  My thought are a woofer is a better choice but, I will experiment with my 2 nearfield subs.  Dave, the 15 UM may be the perfect middle spot for driver.  It should be easy and safe to drive from the I Nuke.

 

[joessportster]

5 hours ago, Rudy81 said:

I would shoot to make the crossover point as low as possible, thereby allowing the full range driver to do as much as possible without the interference of a crossover and issues associated with two drivers operating in the crossover range.  In my case, I have a non-conventional 3 way system.  The HF driver is in an Oris horn which rolls off at 150Hz.  I chose a 300Hz crossover to have plenty of hf performance before the horn ran into roll-off territory.  So, my HF driver goes from 20kHz to 300Hz.  The OB H frame drivers go from 300Hz to 80Hz.  From 80Hz to 20Hz I use my RSW-15s in order to get a true 20Hz-20kHz capability. I have not found a better way to do it.  For LFE I use 4 huge ported full Marty subs with 18" drivers. 

 

As we all know, in an ideal world, you would use a single driver for the entire frequency range and avoid any crossovers. However, that unicorn doesn't exist AFAIK. 

 

Your ears will be the ultimate judge, but I submit you will be better served with the full range driver covering the largest possible portion of the audio frequency spectrum.

Agreed that the full range driver should do most of the work, I have read midbass CAN lay in the 250 to 500 Hz area.  I plan to try crossover points between the 250-500Hz areas and see what I get, I currently only have the 500 Hz chipset and am using it. I was previously using no crossover on full range driver and using the built in on  the crown to bring in the Hframes at 100 Hz.  That sounds VERY GOOD but again limited IMPACT.  With the 500 HZ the Impact is GREATLY improved very close to my goal. But I am not sure I need to cross at 500 to get that impact it may happen at 300. I have Phil building me several more crossover point chips and I will be able to test at 150, 200, 250, 300, 400 hz next week or so.   My plan is 

 

AN 15" driver up top run very close to full Range,  H-Frame pick up somewhere between 100-500Hz, and let 1 of the tuba subs pick up at 30-40 Hz and below using a subwoofer plate amp I have in an old Klipsch sub that sets unused...............This will give me 20Hz - 15Khz (I can not hear above 14Khz so 15 is good enough, no high end augmentation needed)

 

We are closer than I made it sound  

[Rudy81]

The only way to know what you will like is to experiment, as you are doing. Good luck!

[joessportster]

On 10/9/2018 at 9:45 AM, Rudy81 said:

The only way to know what you will like is to experiment, as you are doing. Good luck!

Ahhhhhhh The crossover chips arrived this AM Keeping all vocals on the full ranger was a priority as well as adding some impact to the Bass. 250 was a bit to high I was getting vocals on the Bass driver muddying things up a bit. swapped in the 200 Hz chip.  UREKA  no vocals on the bass driver and Bass impact has improved, now have the TUBA sub kicking in around 50 Hz and we are in BUSINESS.................There is no substitute for the foundation, I have to say it is a much better presentation when you get the bass dialed in deep with impact

Puts a big ole smile on the face .........

 

! other thing I have noticed with the setup My ears are not affected as much.  When listening at higher levels certain freq. would cause a buzzing / static in my left ear on all box type speakers & Horns, with the OB I have not run into that issue even at very high levels ? Curious...........

[YK Thom]

Out of depth here, but wouldn’t the addition of a super tweeter to a full range driver offer more benifet? 

[pzannucci]

I find that this is a tricky question and many times relies on the crossover roll off.  A slower roll off with a crossover in the 300hz or so area, done correctly, can provide very satisfactory midbass if you have enough cone area in the driver crossed over to.  Shallower slopes will change the midbass equation.   

To me steep slopes (24db) in the mid bass seem to loose the breath in vocals and other instruments, allowing you to notice the cut-off between the drivers much more readily loosing the real sound.