luddite Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 I am deliberating a new turntable purchase. My 2 channel system is all older stuff, but good quality (McIntosh SS amps, preamp, and CD player, with Khorns and Belles), really 2 systems I have merged into one. I have a Thoren 160 HD as my primary turntable, and an original Empire Troubadour II I have kept more for aesthetic reasons. I got the Empire years ago, but haven't been playing it much. Now I wonder if a newer turntable like the Rega Planar 3 will be make a noticeable difference with my system. I would retire/replace/sell the Empire. It's kind of like a classic car; i hate to get rid of it, but right now it is more or less a decoration. Any opinions as to whether a 598 has more value as a collector item or as a resale? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 I think you should listen and compare. Different turntables have different "sounds" and I wouldn't count on a new Rega sounding better than an older Empire, though it might. Also, the tone arm is often a major factor. You should listen to the whole setup to compare, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luddite Posted October 13, 2018 Author Share Posted October 13, 2018 I have kept the Empire original, including the now 50 year old Shure cartridge. The original tonearm is high mass. Everything is in decent shape, just 1970's technology. I was more wondering if more modern turntables, cartridges and low mass tonearms had positive effects on sound reproduction. The amps, preamps, and speakers are circa 1980's, the idea of a "more modern" sound may be moot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 the difference in rumble alone warrants the upgrade. modern tables are, for the most part, really good... even the lower cost units. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luddite Posted October 13, 2018 Author Share Posted October 13, 2018 I was reading the material I got with the 598 from Empire. Their specs listed: Rumble-lowest of any turntable tested -90 DB RRLL. Not being a rumble expert, I have no idea if that has a significance now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 I was under the impression (for some reason) that the empire was a wheel/pulley system, not a belt drive. I can see it's a belt drive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luddite Posted October 13, 2018 Author Share Posted October 13, 2018 From what I can tell, the 598 was well received in its day, and still has a following in the "vintage" audio circles. My question is, would a decent new turntable/tonearm/cartridge setup sound different from a decent or better setup from 50 years ago? I guess it's like wondering if a 2018 Chevy would drive better than a 1975 Caddy. Maybe not a good analogy. Just seems to me that things would have improved over the years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshnich Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 Not that anyone would.....but please don’t take what I say as gospel. I don’t know a lot about vintage empire turntables. But as one who has rebuilt and refurbished a number of vintage turntables I would venture a guess that the guts of that Empire are dramatically better than any entry level rega, project, music hall, whatever option. All of those tts will sound good but I venture to say that your empire could smoke them all. I say this thinking that you would have the desire and time to spend figuring out how to upgrade that table. I imagine the weak point would be the tone arm. Researching what to earn could work and what the arm board and plinth options would be is a time consuming but fun thing to do. In fact just writing this has gets my blood moving! On second thought sell me the empire and buy some cheap replacement. ! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 If I only worked 40 hour weeks I would rebuild the Empire with new arm board and Cuuent technology tone arm. VPI Graham or Regs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwgorman Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 Oooooooo! I replaced my TD320mkiii with a SL1200G and I’m very happy with the decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scalawag Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 Congrats, great choice! I have two "vintage" SL TTs that I still enjoy very much, and I'm confident your 1200G will be a keeper for the long-term as well. Happy listening! ~ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 On 10/13/2018 at 11:12 AM, luddite said: I am deliberating a new turntable purchase. My 2 channel system is all older stuff, but good quality (McIntosh SS amps, preamp, and CD player, with Khorns and Belles), really 2 systems I have merged into one. I have a Thoren 160 HD as my primary turntable, and an original Empire Troubadour II I have kept more for aesthetic reasons. I got the Empire years ago, but haven't been playing it much. Now I wonder if a newer turntable like the Rega Planar 3 will be make a noticeable difference with my system. I would retire/replace/sell the Empire. It's kind of like a classic car; i hate to get rid of it, but right now it is more or less a decoration. Any opinions as to whether a 598 has more value as a collector item or as a resale? If you want to improve your sound look for a better cartridge in your price range. Doing a sideways swap for a newer table will not garner near as much improvement as a better cartridge. You already have a couple decent tables. to get a better sound from the tables you will need to spend more than a rega can do. IMHO Your tables are pretty much on par with the P-3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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