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Gclayton

Denon 4400H...Not loud enough??

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Hello, 

 

I just set set up my first ever home theatre system. I ended up purchasing the Denon AVRX4400H to power the speakers that I bought. I got everything hooked up this past weekend and it seems like I have to turn up to 75-80% volume for it to be somewhat loud. Would there be a reason I have to turn it up so much? Is that expected? I was expecting a little more boom with a little less effort. The speaker set up is listed below. 

 

 

504c

2 RP-260F

2 RP- 160M—Haven’t even hooked up yet, waiting on mounts

2 R-112SW

 

 

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How large is your room?

How far from front stage do you sit?

 

Bill

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11 hours ago, Gclayton said:

Hello, 

 

I just set set up my first ever home theatre system. I ended up purchasing the Denon AVRX4400H to power the speakers that I bought. I got everything hooked up this past weekend and it seems like I have to turn up to 75-80% volume for it to be somewhat loud. Would there be a reason I have to turn it up so much? Is that expected? I was expecting a little more boom with a little less effort. The speaker set up is listed below. 

 

 

504c

2 RP-260F

2 RP- 160M—Haven’t even hooked up yet, waiting on mounts

2 R-112SW

 

 

 

Go in Audessy and make sure Dynamic Volume is off. Also, Audessy most likely trimmed your speaker levels below the default 0.0db when you ran the room correction.

 

For music, 2channel stereo, I turn Audessy off completely. Make sure your speakers are set to Large in 2 channel stero options and Subwoofer set to yes.

 

 

 

 

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21 minutes ago, Gclayton said:

The room isn’t large, it opens up in the back. Seating is about 5ft away

Then something ain't right.:unsure2:  I doubt it is the speakers.

 

Bill

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For home theater, try setting the speakers to small and crossover to 80hz. Those are the usual culprits for quality home theaters not living up to expectations.

 

I can assure you, that receiver will drive those speakers to crazy loud levels, especially considering how close you are sitting to them🤯

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Here's your receiver's  connections to help troubleshoot.

g033AVX4400-B.jpg

 

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8 minutes ago, TasDom said:

Here's your receiver's  connections to help troubleshoot.

g033AVX4400-B.jpg

 

Have you double checked that you are plugged into the right outputs and positive / negative are correct?

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That setup should BLOW you out of the room :(  Not familiar with this Denon, but I suggest you start looking at the settings. Maybe try a 2 channel stereo setup first ... then start adding more speakers. Also check your speaker levels ... maybe Audessy turned them "way down."  Good luck :D 

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If you go into the manual Audyssey setup, there is a subcategory called crossover. You can click the box at the top, that crosses over all speakers and change it to 80hz. 

 

Many People here also run their subs 2 or 3db hot. I would find some bass tests on YouTube and play some tracks and adjust the subwoofer level to your liking. Taking some of the heavy lifting off the speakers and putting it on the subs will allow for more headroom. 

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On 10/16/2018 at 9:11 PM, Gclayton said:

 

 

Something is definitely wrong.

 

Check your Denon manual.  There are two ways to set up your Main Volume Control.  You want it set up to film industry standards so a very high volume is about 0 dB and a low volume is a negative number, like about - 70 dB.  Under those circumstances, Audyssey would set the Sound Pressure Level (the correct term for "volume" or "loudness") to Reference Level when the Main Volume Control is at 0 dB.  This is outrageously loud on loud passages.  It, after running Audyssey, will give you the same SPL in dB at the Main Listening Position (which should be at microphone position #1), with your  speakers, in your room, as the mixers heard when doing the sound for the movie.  This is possible because movies, unlike music, are mastered to be at a known and standard SPL level.  This should provide instantaneous peaks (milliseconds long) up to full scale for main channels of 105 dB, and 115 dB for the subwoofer channel.  THX has looked into perceptual or psychological loudness (and "loudness" is a perceptual/psychological term, rather than a physical one), and determined that someone with a Large home theater or listening room will perceive - 5 dB MV, rather than 0 dB, as the same level as Reference level in the center of a THX commercial movie theater, due to the smaller room's earlier reflections (perceived as the original sound rather than reverb) and pressure waves.  In your smallish room at 5 feet, I'd think, maybe, -8 dB would "sound like" Reference level.  Many people listen at -10 to -15 dB. 

 

I've never heard of Audyssey setting the volume too low, when the Main Volume Control is set up as above.  Many of us do add a subwoofer boost of 3 to 8, or so, dB, because, we became used to a few anomalous bass peaks before Audyssey.   Several researchers (Harmon inc. and several others) found that most people prefer low bass being elevated as much as 9 dB over the highest treble.  So, Audyssey smooths out the kinks and zigzags and you set the overall, smoothed, bass to taste.  Don't turn the bass up with the AVR's subwoofer trim control.  The cheap line drivers in many AVRs' subwoofer output circuits clip easily.  Keep that trim level below about -5.  Use the gain control on the subwoofer itself to turn up the bass.

 

Once you get your SPL problem solved, put your feet up and read both of the following -- they are leagues better than almost any manual, and unlike most manuals, they have been scrutinized and revised. "Audyssey FAQ Linked Here"  
Guide to Subwoofer Calibration and Bass Preferences 

 

I tried to confirm that the Denon AVRX4400H is powerful enough (which it almost certainly is) but the website won't let me see the specs.  When you get past all the advertising blather, the power figure that counts is "Continuous Power per channel in watts, 2 channels operating, 20 to 20,000 Hz. at 8 Ohms at a low level of Total Harmonic Distortion (below about 0.09%).  This information should be in your manual, probably in the last few pages.  If the figure is 100 watts per channel, or more, for two channels, the amp is probably powerful enough for your speakers.  A much more realistic  spec would be "with all channels operating," to put a proper strain on the power supply, but AVR manufacturers haven't revealed that for the last few years.  A "bench test" by a reviewer would probably cover that. 

 

P.S.  Audyssey makes my system sound much better, really sing. 

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3 hours ago, garyrc said:

 

Something is definitely wrong.

 

Check your Denon manual.  There are two ways to set up your Main Volume Control.  You want it set up to film industry standards so a very high volume is about 0 dB and a low volume is a negative number, like about - 70 dB.  Under those circumstances, Audyssey would set the Sound Pressure Level (the correct term for "volume" or "loudness") to Reference Level when the Main Volume Control is at 0 dB.  This is outrageously loud on loud passages.  It, after running Audyssey, will give you the same SPL in dB at the Main Listening Position (which should be at microphone position #1), with your  speakers, in your room, at your as the mixers heard when doing the sound for the movie.  This is possible because movies, unlike music, are mastered to be at a known and standard SPL level.  This should provide instantaneous peaks (milliseconds long) up to full scale for main channels of 105 dB, and 115 dB for the subwoofer channel.  THX has looked into perceptual or psychological loudness (and "loudness" is a perceptual/psychological term, rather than a physical one), and determined that someone with a Large home theater or listening room will perceive - 5 dB MV, rather than 0 dB, as the same level as Reference level in the center of a THX commercial movie theater, due to the smaller room's earlier reflections (perceived as the original sound rather than reverb) and pressure waves.  In your smallish room at 5 feet, I'd think, maybe, -8 dB would "sound like" Reference level.  Many people listen at -10 to -15 dB. 

 

I've never heard of Audyssey setting the volume too low, when the Main Volume Control is set up as above.  Many of us do add a subwoofer boost of 3 to 8, or so, dB, because, we became used to a few anomalous bass peaks before Audyssey.   Several researchers (Harmon inc. and several others) found that most people prefer low bass being elevated as much as 9 dB over the highest treble.  So, Audyssey smooths out the kinks and zigzags and you set the overall, smoothed, bass to taste.  Don't turn the bass up with the AVR's subwoofer trim control.  The cheap line drivers in many AVRs' subwoofer output circuits clip easily.  Keep that trim level below about -5.  Use the gain control on the subwoofer itself to turn up the bass.

 

Once you get your SPL problem solved, put your feet up and read both of the following -- they are leagues better than almost any manual, and unlike most manuals, they have been scrutinized and revised. "Audyssey FAQ Linked Here"  
Guide to Subwoofer Calibration and Bass Preferences 

 

I tried to confirm that the Denon AVRX4400H is powerful enough (which it almost certainly is) but the website won't let me see the specs.  When you get past all the advertising blather, the power figure that counts is "Continuous Power per channel in watts, 2 channels operating, 20 to 20,000 Hz. at 8 Ohms at a low level of Total Harmonic Distortion (below about 0.09%).  This information should be in your manual, probably in the last few pages.  If the figure is 100 watts per channel, or more, for two channels, the amp is probably powerful enough for your speakers.  A much more realistic  spec would be "with all channels operating," to put a proper strain on the power supply, but AVR manufacturers haven't revealed that for the last few years.  A "bench test" by a reviewer would probably cover that. 

 

P.S.  Audyssey makes my system sound much better, really sing. 

It is infinitely annoying to me that even the best most respected receiver manufacturers don't include power ratings for all channels being driven. I mean who the hell buys a 7.2 receiver to listen to stereo? No one does. So that 2-channel spec is completely useless. And they literally ALL do it! Even on the high end models. 

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You have a set up issue or a defective AVR.

I have a X1200W--run 5 towers and have more than enough power.

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16 minutes ago, CoryGillmore said:

It is infinitely annoying to me that even the best most respected receiver manufacturers don't include power ratings for all channels being driven. I mean who the hell buys a 7.2 receiver to listen to stereo? No one does. So that 2-channel spec is completely useless. And they literally ALL do it! Even on the high end models. 

I agree...it's frustrating for sure but companies have always done that, even when I was into car audio.  There really isn't a standard either.  My Marantz SR8012 claims 205 x 7 on their website, then the manual says 140 x 7 and then you have Audioholics who bench tested it and it was 95 x 7 channels.  With that said, I can easily reach reference levels and beyond power 3 LaScalas, 4 RS62 II surrounds and 4 CDT-5800-C II In-Ceiling Atmos speakers.

You should definitely have no problem powering your system with the 4400.

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4 hours ago, CoryGillmore said:

It is infinitely annoying to me that even the best most respected receiver manufacturers don't include power ratings for all channels being driven. I mean who the hell buys a 7.2 receiver to listen to stereo? No one does. So that 2-channel spec is completely useless. And they literally ALL do it! Even on the high end models. 

 

Yes, it's annoying.

 

Thanks to some audiophiles gathering some data, the 2 channel spec may not be completely useless.  For 5.1 they found that 5 channels were each powered at about 70% to 80% of the 2 channel rating.  I haven't seen any results for 7.1 or 9.1.

 

In the old, old days (the late '50s and early '60s) the Federal Trade Commission forced manufacturers to be more fully disclosing.  I remember photographs of them weighting down turntable platters, and running amplifier tests.  Then the regs changed and the manufacturers went wild with exaggerated specs.  Gradually it got better, perhaps because audio critics shamed them, as did a few honest companies like McIntosh.  THEN, car audio became popular, and car audio standards were much lower.  

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Hello, 

 

I just set set up my first ever home theatre system. I ended up purchasing the Denon AVRX4400H to power the speakers that I bought. I got everything hooked up this past weekend and it seems like I have to turn up to 75-80% volume for it to be somewhat loud. Would there be a reason I have to turn it up so much? Is that expected? I was expecting a little more boom with a little less effort. The speaker set up is listed below. 

 

  504c

2 RP-260F

2 RP- 160M—Haven’t even hooked up yet, waiting on mounts

2 R-112SW

 

 

Never used Audessey. I use the test tones and a SPL meter. Never had a problem. I understand a lot of people have trouble with Audessey.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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