Alexander Posted November 3, 2018 Author Share Posted November 3, 2018 Looks like a slight detour, after looking at the Ciare & a55g drivers it would require cutting into the oem xover. The factory wires are very short and would not give enough wire to re terminate them. So the xover will go in first, probably should have done it this way from the start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 49 minutes ago, Alexander said: Would that be to avoid creating a possible ground loop? In ham radio we avoid them at all cost. There is no “ground” per se, it’s just positive and negative used as references for phasing. A passive crossover is not a power supply - if it were - you’d be feeding it 120 volts from your wall outlet. You don’t make the frame of the autoformer part of the circuit because it makes no sense - I have no idea what the consequences are, but there are certainly no positives. Using steel to “shield” an autoformer is a bad idea because steel is a ferrous material, and an autoformer is basically a coil. Save your creative energy to come up with a good layout and a clean installation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Posted November 7, 2018 Author Share Posted November 7, 2018 On 10/20/2018 at 2:18 PM, moray james said: I think that you will get better results with the inductors in a "T" configuration each tight in the others null. you might want to set up and listen to some assorted layouts. you can also experiment with a copper soldered foil wrap around the transformer listen to it both with and without a ground. Was curious how much of an influence the inductors had on each other in the present circut layout and found that the 1.75mH inductor was increased by just under .02mH. The others were affected by a single digit uH when compared to measurements by them selves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Posted November 7, 2018 Author Share Posted November 7, 2018 On 11/3/2018 at 12:10 AM, Deang said: There is no “ground” per se, it’s just positive and negative used as references for phasing. A passive crossover is not a power supply - if it were - you’d be feeding it 120 volts from your wall outlet. You don’t make the frame of the autoformer part of the circuit because it makes no sense - I have no idea what the consequences are, but there are certainly no positives. Using steel to “shield” an autoformer is a bad idea because steel is a ferrous material, and an autoformer is basically a coil. Save your creative energy to come up with a good layout and a clean installation. Will do , this one seems to be a bit more challenging to solder with all the components being so close together..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Posted November 8, 2018 Author Share Posted November 8, 2018 A bit of work down.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wirrunna Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 23 hours ago, Alexander said: Was curious how much of an influence the inductors had on each other in the present circut layout and found that the 1.75mH inductor was increased by just under .02mH. The others were affected by a single digit uH when compared to measurements by them selves. Alexander, this link - http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/coils.htm - gives a good idea about interaction of inductors and their placement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 His aluminum plate has something in it besides aluminum, because aluminum is not ferrous. The capacitor he uses to show "no effect", is a Jantzen Superior-Z, which is housed in an aluminum tube. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 I have lots of aluminum nuts and bolts which I can either move or outright pick up with a magnet. Lots of ferrous contaminants same goes for brass hardware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Posted November 9, 2018 Author Share Posted November 9, 2018 Thanks for the link on the coils, measured all inductors again in circuit (without drivers of course) and all were less than 3% variance from rated values. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 18 minutes ago, Alexander said: Thanks for the link on the coils, measured all inductors again in circuit (without drivers of course) and all were less than 3% variance from rated values. They measure normally because there is no current going through them. When you send current through them, it generates a small electromagnetic field - this will cause the coils to interreact (if they are too close). Read about Faraday’s Law of Induction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Posted November 9, 2018 Author Share Posted November 9, 2018 Got it, I understand the possibility or rather the theory of coupling thought not to the degree of mathematical formulas. I do know the ferrous cores have less "leakage" compared to air coils but to what extent I do not know. As I have understood it you would want a minimum of one diameter (plus phasing) of the coil spacing to minimize coupling and the guide I have used up to now. Is this thinking wrong and if so what guidelines should I use? I understand we want to have as much distance as possible but few of us will have the luxury of have say over 12"+ between all inductors in our crossover layouts yes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Posted November 9, 2018 Author Share Posted November 9, 2018 Which brings the question up, is this current layout severely flawed, I wouldn't think so having seen many other layouts including Deang and ALK's and of course Klipsch oem stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 Looks fine to me. I wouldn't sweat it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Posted November 10, 2018 Author Share Posted November 10, 2018 23 hours ago, Deang said: Looks fine to me. I wouldn't sweat it. Just done with one xo, they are never as neat as one wants. Soldering is "functional". Not too fond of this wire when it comes to soldering. If it were used in a crimp then solder arrangement it is fine but for me the very fine/many multi wire tests my skill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Posted November 19, 2018 Author Share Posted November 19, 2018 Well the second xover is now finished, and as usual the second one goes easier than the first, at least for me anyhow Also mounted and soldiered the components on the c7 xover less the speaker wires. When my back recovers they will go in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capo72 Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 What did you use for the solder "lugs" that are screwed to the board? I'm having a hard time finding something suitable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Posted November 19, 2018 Author Share Posted November 19, 2018 3 hours ago, capo72 said: What did you use for the solder "lugs" that are screwed to the board? I'm having a hard time finding something suitable. Deang turned me on to them: http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Molex/38002-0257/?qs=r67nD8F6E5b0bR4%2FpRChbw%3D%3D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Posted November 19, 2018 Author Share Posted November 19, 2018 Excited about putting these xovers in after hearing what the klf-c7 xover did when installed it's new xover! Same quaity parts were used for both the klf-c7 & klf-30's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capo72 Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 16 hours ago, Alexander said: Deang turned me on to them: http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Molex/38002-0257/?qs=r67nD8F6E5b0bR4%2FpRChbw%3D%3D Thanks! the only thing close I have been able to find are for tattoo machines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Posted November 22, 2018 Author Share Posted November 22, 2018 Installed the new xovers yesterday and am quite pleased with the results. Much more detail and punch more dynamic. You lose the "location" of the speakers now as though the sound is suspended in the air. Was it with the $$$, I think so. The Ciare and a55g drives will be done next after say a week of listening with the current setup. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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