LarryC Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 What is the end point you're hoping for? My impression is that you're flailing around and will be lucky if you don't end up stepping backward. Sonic changes are not necessarily improvements just because they sound different. How do you know that each step should result in an improvement of some sort? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Chi-town Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 19 hours ago, moray james said: if you have little to no experience in driver modification then you are best to stay with stock and find a speaker that already has the characteristics that you are looking for. So far as upgrades go you can improve your Forte significantly adding clarity detail and image by switching to a Crites titanium tweeter diaphragm and a Klipsch titanium mid diaphragm available from Simply speakers. Upgrade your network capacitors and you will have made a big step up. Both of those are direct drop in replacements. If you are good with doing that and you want to do more you can but you need to use specific materials and install them properly. The modifications that I do are primarily focused on reducing or eliminating noise usually in the form of resonance and reflections. If you can change your diaphragms and you are not phased by that and you want to make further improvements then you can get back to me in a PM and I can explain what you have as options and what is involved. Raising your Forte up off the ground so that the centre of the mid horn is at your seated ear level will help with improving stage and image of the system. That generally requires a stand of 14 -16 inches depending upon your seating and your height so measure for your own exact needs. I own forte II as well. Upgrading the caps or replacing the old networks with new will be a good start. I did both the Ti tweeter and squawker upgrade as well. If you replace the squawker diaphragms with Ti, you will require a band pass roll off so that you do not have the squawker driver and tweeter driver running at the same time on signals over 7.3 KHZ I am extremely happy with the results, basically a forte III for pennies on the dollar. If you want more info. Feel free to PM me. Regards, John 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moosee1955 Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 Well I'm probably going to be bashed or maybe not. But I've found that electronics can make a noticable difference. I don't know your budget, but if it were me I'd look into either a Conrad Johnson tube amp/preamp setup with Russian tubes. Or maybe McIntosh mc275 with a matching tube preamp. The Mac offers bass and treble controls but the CJ has such a forward mellow sound, best I've heard in a while. The Mac is 75wpc, the CJ about same. Replacing caps with 1 percent tolerance and high grade air core inductors help some. The Crites I think use 5 percent caps. A top shelf moving coil cartridge like clear audio, along with matching step up is huge but costly. Bottom line in any stereo is how much you have to spend? Whatever way you go, be sure it's returnable. Most shops only offer trade up not refund. Best buy here in California has refund if not Happy.Sent from my N9131 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym Posted October 23, 2018 Author Share Posted October 23, 2018 I did all the Crites upgrades,now I'm looking at perhaps upgrading my integrated amp or phono stage. What I would like to know is will I hear a big difference if I went from a vintage Marantz to a modern one. I like the vintage Marantz, do the modern ones have the same signature? Someone suggested I don't swap my electronics. As much as I like my Marantz 1070, I believe I can improve the Forte's if I match them with higher end components,ie Marantz PM 8006 or maybe a better phono ie Croft RIAA. How can these not improve the Forte ll's and bring them to another level? The next thing I will be doing is putting acoustic foam panels in back of the Forte's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakeydeal Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 I wouldn't go with another Marantz amp. If you don't want to go with separates, look at a good tube integrated. Also, good cables, room treatment and speaker placement are all things that will go a long way to improving the sound. Shakey 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Richard Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 On 10/20/2018 at 11:04 AM, andym said: I would like to bring the Forte ll up a level or two sonically but not sure what I should be upgrading. You mention speaker mods and electronics but seem to be ignoring the most important factor - the room. A room that is poor acoustically will sound bad no matter what equipment is in it. Room treatments and loudspeaker placement will fix most situations like you describe. Tube amps and wires cannot correct an acoustic problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym Posted October 23, 2018 Author Share Posted October 23, 2018 I did mention in my last post that I will be putting acoustic foam behind the speakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Bum Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 Imaging is what you're after? Maybe try what is suggested HERE. Worth a shot, absolutely free to try it out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cincymat Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 Maybe you could try a different phono cartridge? Just upgraded mine to a Dynavector 10x5 II from an Ortofon 2M Blue. Huge difference in detail and sound stage. There are plenty to choose from. Pick one that suits your tonearm mass. Best of luck Cincy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtmudd Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 18 hours ago, andym said: I did all the Crites upgrades,now I'm looking at perhaps upgrading my integrated amp or phono stage. What I would like to know is will I hear a big difference if I went from a vintage Marantz to a modern one. I like the vintage Marantz, do the modern ones have the same signature? Someone suggested I don't swap my electronics. As much as I like my Marantz 1070, I believe I can improve the Forte's if I match them with higher end components,ie Marantz PM 8006 or maybe a better phono ie Croft RIAA. How can these not improve the Forte ll's and bring them to another level? The next thing I will be doing is putting acoustic foam panels in back of the Forte's. You will have to spend a lot more $$.. On a new amp...to beat that old marantz.... Has the 1070 been serviced ? If not it's $$$ well spent... "How do I bring Forte ll`s to new level???" move them upstairs 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzannucci Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 19 hours ago, andym said: I did mention in my last post that I will be putting acoustic foam behind the speakers. Why would you do that? Is that location really a reflection point that causes problems with imaging or an imbalance in the frequency response? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym Posted October 24, 2018 Author Share Posted October 24, 2018 6 hours ago, pzannucci said: Why would you do that? Is that location really a reflection point that causes problems with imaging or an imbalance in the frequency response? I`ve read that putting acoustic panels in back of speakers will improve imaging and clarity.I'm I wrong to believe this? Are you saying that I shouldn't? What would you suggest? My speakers are 6' apart and I'm sitting 6' away from my speakers.My listening space is 9' wide and about 24' long in an irregular room.One side wall is finished with gypsum and a curtain at the reflection point and the other side is a shelve unit for storing my vinyl records.I have nothing on the ceiling. Imaging is dead center but sometimes, depending on the recording, it's slightly off.Is there anything I can do to improve this? BTW thanks to everyone who have replied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Chi-town Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 26 minutes ago, andym said: I`ve read that putting acoustic panels in back of speakers will improve imaging and clarity.I'm I wrong to believe this? Are you saying that I shouldn't? What would you suggest? My speakers are 6' apart and I'm sitting 6' away from my speakers.My listening space is 9' wide and about 24' long in an irregular room.One side wall is finished with gypsum and a curtain at the reflection point and the other side is a shelve unit for storing my vinyl records.I have nothing on the ceiling. Imaging is dead center but sometimes, depending on the recording, it's slightly off.Is there anything I can do to improve this? BTW thanks to everyone who have replied. INMHO, you are way to close in your current listening configuration. If you can get at least 10 feet from speakers, preferably 12-15 I am certain the sound will change for the better. Regards, John 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Bum Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 That's a pretty near-field orientation, which could limit what your fortes can pull off. Big three ways just don't lend themselves to extreme near-field arrangements. As for absorption behind the speakers, those sort of panels are only good at higher frequencies, at which fortes are highly directional. You would be better off using the panels at primary first reflection points rather than behind the speakers. Or, try that extreme toe-in orientation, as it will eliminate any early hard reflections yet preserve tonally correct later reflections. You also may be able to more widely space the speakers as well, which will help-and don't worry if that means the fortes are closer to the corners. Fortes love corners. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Chi-town Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 8 minutes ago, Ski Bum said: That's a pretty near-field orientation, which could limit what your fortes can pull off. Big three ways just don't lend themselves to extreme near-field arrangements. As for absorption behind the speakers, those sort of panels are only good at higher frequencies, at which fortes are highly directional. You would be better off using the panels at primary first reflection points rather than behind the speakers. Or, try that extreme toe-in orientation, as it will eliminate any early hard reflections yet preserve tonally correct later reflections. You also may be able to more widely space the speakers as well, which will help. As we both stated I think his near field listening position is more than 95% of the issue........ Regards, John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Chi-town Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 15 feet from listening position, 12 inches from rear wall, no toe in = Pure Listening Nirvana! Results may vary............. Regards, John 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym Posted October 24, 2018 Author Share Posted October 24, 2018 How far apart are your speakers? I can move back but a can't space my speakers wider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Chi-town Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 Roughly 6 1/2 feet from each side closest to the entertainment center. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym Posted October 24, 2018 Author Share Posted October 24, 2018 Ok, so your speakers are 1.5' wider apart than in my set-up and your are sitting a 15' from speaker. So if I back up, say, to 10', I should hear a difference. I'll try that tonight. Thanks 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Chi-town Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 4 minutes ago, andym said: Ok, so your speakers are 1.5' wider apart than in my set-up and your are sitting a 15' from speaker. So if I back up, say, to 10', I should hear a difference. I'll try that tonight. Thanks Correct. The closer you can get if possible to 12-15 feet, the better they will sound, Try by using a kitchen or folding chair at various distances till you find your sweet spot! Your welcome. Please share your thoughts once you have tried. Regards, John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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