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How do I bring Forte ll`s to new level???


andym
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17 hours ago, andym said:

I`ve read that putting acoustic panels in back of speakers will improve imaging and clarity.I'm I wrong to believe this? Are you saying that I shouldn't? What would you suggest?

My speakers are 6' apart and I'm sitting 6' away from my speakers.My listening space is 9' wide and about 24' long in an irregular room.One side wall is finished with gypsum and a curtain at the reflection point and the other side is a shelve unit for storing my vinyl records.I have nothing on the ceiling. Imaging is dead center but sometimes, depending on the recording, it's slightly off.Is there anything I can do to improve this?

BTW thanks to everyone who have replied.

You have to not listen to everything and read into what is being said.  The panels are used to reduce reflections at certain frequencies.  You should establish where the reflected sound occurs and stop it from blending into the direct sound.  Just putting the panels behind the speakers, particularly with horns that have a much more narrow dispersion pattern than domes and direct radiators typically do, may, and probably will not be the best use of the panels.

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16 hours ago, John Chi-town said:

 

Correct.  The closer you can get if possible to 12-15 feet, the better they will sound,  Try by using a kitchen or folding chair at various distances till you find your sweet spot!

 

Your welcome.  Please share your thoughts once you have tried.

 

Regards,

John

 

So, what were the results  of moving your listening position further back???

 

Regards,

John 

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2 hours ago, John Chi-town said:

 

So, what were the results  of moving your listening position further back???

 

Regards,

John 

Only listened for an hour.I`ll get back to you once I get more time in...but it sounds promising(no pun intended)!!!

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Ok, so I moved my position back by 4' and I have gained some clarity. With the first LP I played I would describe the sound as a bit bright but then after a few more Lp's I realized that it's not brightness but rather clarity. I think the brightness I heard on the first Lp is the recording.The sound is not fatiguing therefore not bright.

I'll put in more listening time over the weekend and will share my thoughts.

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You’ve gotta find someone with a vintage el84 amp. Eico,Scott, Dynaco, even Heathkit that would bring over and demo for you. I’m no audiophile and none of my setups are acoustically ideal  but, I know the sweetness I hear when any of these are driving my forte ii or any of my other Klipsch speakers. If you mainly listen to vinyl the Scott would probably be the best fit without mods. The eico and Heathkit are not as good in the phono stage in stock form. .Don’t get me wrong I like marantz and solid state in certain systems but, you owe it to yourself to try a tube amp and i think the el84 amps are a great match and for $5-700 you should find a restored one. Good luck!

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2 hours ago, Madman1 said:

You’ve gotta find someone with a vintage el84 amp. Eico,Scott, Dynaco, even Heathkit that would bring over and demo for you. I’m no audiophile and none of my setups are acoustically ideal  but, I know the sweetness I hear when any of these are driving my forte ii or any of my other Klipsch speakers. If you mainly listen to vinyl the Scott would probably be the best fit without mods. The eico and Heathkit are not as good in the phono stage in stock form. .Don’t get me wrong I like marantz and solid state in certain systems but, you owe it to yourself to try a tube amp and i think the el84 amps are a great match and for $5-700 you should find a restored one. Good luck!

 

Thanks for all the advise but I`m still working on fine tuning my seating position.I was actually thinking of tubes lately and I might be convinced in getting a tube phono suchas a Croft RIAA. Do you think I will get the tube experience if I went tube phono and SS integrated amp?

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1 hour ago, andym said:

 

Thanks for all the advise but I`m still working on fine tuning my seating position.I was actually thinking of tubes lately and I might be convinced in getting a tube phono suchas a Croft RIAA. Do you think I will get the tube experience if I went tube phono and SS integrated amp?

I honestly can’t speak to that unit, I do believe tubes on the front end will  sweeten the sound but, I know the midrange that is produced from that el84 tube is sooo sweet and rich. I have my forte 2 running off a partially recapped Scott 299b that is somewhere in the mid 20watt range and is such a pleasure to listen to. 

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I would ask on this forum if there are any Klipscheads near you that have tube equipment that they could bring over for an audition. You may find that tubes are the missing link, or that you hate them. At any rate it would be far cheaper than buying new equipment and being disappointed. Most people on here are glad to lend a hand. 

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I've listened from my new position for about 6 hours yesterday and have concluded that the sound is definitely clearer. At first I perceived it as being bright since I was not used to all this clarity but as the hours passed that brightness was turn to clarity.I did not experience any fatigue from the 6 hour session and could have listened longer but it was getting late.Imaging hasn't changed, vocals are still dead center, obviously depending on the recording. So, I'm really happy with the results and glad I asked all those questions.Thanks again to all those who have replied and helped. Now I'm looking for a tube phono to get the tube feeling.

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3 minutes ago, andym said:

I've listened from my new position for about 6 hours yesterday and have concluded that the sound is definitely clearer. At first I perceived it as being bright since I was not used to all this clarity but as the hours passed that brightness was turn to clarity.I did not experience any fatigue from the 6 hour session and could have listened longer but it was getting late.Imaging hasn't changed, vocals are still dead center, obviously depending on the recording. So, I'm really happy with the results and glad I asked all those questions.Thanks again to all those who have replied and helped. Now I'm looking for a tube phono to get the tube feeling.

Keep playing with placement, there still could be an improvement you haven't encountered yet.

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1 hour ago, andym said:

Considering my set-up, would bass traps work for me?

Have you assessed your acoustic situation using REW or similar?  As a general rule, you should first identify issues before implementing solutions. 

 

A couple things to consider.  Yes, all rooms have modal response issues, but some rooms are worse than others.  Bass traps can help, but they have to be HUGE to be of any benefit whatsoever, and even then they tend to only work on mid-bass modal response. 

 

Adding a sub would be just as effective if not more so for modal smoothing, and far less cumbersome than bass traps large enough for the job.     

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Electronics DO make a difference.   I helped my friend try out several preamps in his system: Threshold, Prima Luna, Adcom, Xiangsheng.  And the one that really stood out was Spectral DMC30. That is the one he bought. Second place winner was Threshold FET-10.  His power amp is an Electron Kinetic Eagle 2A.  So maybe getting into high end audiophile amps will be worthwhile.  Buy used of course as they are very pricey.     The differences had to do with resolution, 3-D soundstage and imaging, dynamics, (especially of the micro variety) transients, speed and a sense of "body", meaning instead of the instruments seeming like 2-D paper cutouts in the sound field, each instrument had a full bodied 3-D effect onto itself.      Once you get into the high end electronics, you'll never look back on Marantz, Onkyo and similar mid-fi components again. 

 

That is not to say there aren't subpar high end components. And not only that, synergy plays a huge role.   It isn't just a matter of spending money. 

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But wait, there's more. All the preamps I mentioned above were mine.   I had already auditioned them in my system which includes Forte I speakers modded EXACTLY like yours.   Although out of all of those I also preferred the Spectral, I actually run a Crown Straight Line Two preamp. I always seem to come back to it no matter what preamps I try.  It only has a MM phono, but a tube step up device could easily be incorporated if you want MC.   I am running a Threshold S-300 II as a power amp, but I have also liked Crown Power Line Two, Three or Four power amps in my system.     You can get say a Crown Straight Line Two and Crown Power Line Two combo very reasonably priced.  They are built like tanks too.  Shop around for well maintain and/or recently serviced units.  

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1 hour ago, kink56 said:

Electronics DO make a difference.

I'll reluctantly agree to this, but I would disagree about it costing an arm and a leg. 

 

The OP has such a near-field-ish arrangement that he may be a candidate for single ended amplification, which brings out all that micro detail and somehow manages to throw a more compelling and realistic image than more conventional amps.  I've been comparing some SE tubes and a recently built ACA (ss se by NP, kit) lately, and they both do that kooky single ended thing pretty well (although the tubes sound a bit more "wet", in production parlance, e.g. they seem to bring out more ambience and spacial aspects). Maynard has several threads on this very topic the OP may wish to explore.

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Op ,

Seems to me that you've done  what most would have suggested, that is to

Take the time to listen to your system. Placement is critical, not only speaker but seating. Sacrilege!!wire not saying to go out and buy expensive wire .you're at the point where the searching will involve small, incremental changes affecting the whole,  you're at the place where its in the mid range. The suggestion by moray shouldn't be ignored. I've tried it on a pair of quartet. It helped with the placement of spkr. Hope you'll have good success. 

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