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babadono

(Another)Forum member auditions my Jubilees

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1 hour ago, babadono said:

it was too early in the day

I never realized there was such a thing.  Who would have guessed.

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4 hours ago, richieb said:

 

=== If I may step in here - my experience with Jubes, 24 feet across center to center is, without a doubt, a center speaker is present and easily defined. 

Next time we'll have to take pictures, huh? 

 

Jubes sound wonderful! 

 

Nice to see Schu in digital form! 😀

 

cincy

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5 hours ago, Schu said:

. Kick drum transients are really insane, and the set up begins to shine as db's begin to increase.

And you insisted on keeping the DBX out of the circuit. You should hear it with Impact Restoration engaged. Well there's always next time.

I think you are referring to Chief Boneheads excellent extremely dynamic CD that I played for you.

BTW thanks @dtel

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3 hours ago, Schu said:

In stock form with VERY LITTLE tuning and system massage, one can CLEARLY hear the potential for these speaker's. Kick drum transients are really insane, and the set up begins to shine as dBs begin to increase. There were a lot of hard surfaces and reflections, but if Eric turned up the system to over 95db+ the speakers maintained GREAT clarity and control... as a matter of fact, the more he turned the system up, the better it sounded...I have no doubt that when room treatment, and placement are addressed that the system will exceed all expectations.

My experience with Jubilee performance out-of-the-box using basic (canned) settings, even using a pair of low quality DSP amplifiers, produced performance that eclipsed everything else that I'd heard in my listening room.  That was 11 years ago. Since then each time that I make incremental improvements to the Jubs...their performance just keeps improving.

 

I believe that part of the fun in owning Jubs is the experience of finding what works better in your listening space after that initial dialing in period.

 

Chris

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23 minutes ago, Chris A said:

My experience with Jubilee performance out-of-the-box using basic (canned) settings, even using a pair of low quality DSP amplifiers, produced performance that eclipsed everything else that I'd heard in my listening room.  That was 11 years ago. Since then each time that I make incremental improvements to the Jubs...their performance just keeps improving.

 

I believe that part of the fun in owning Jubs is the experience of finding what works better in your listening space after that initial dialing in period.

 

Chris

I can see that for sure chris... there is always a journey, and that's half the fun. I have to say, that I was fairly shocked and slightly scared when the db's rose... the speaker is scary good at high output and I can see hearing loss would easily be attained.  my personal space is even smaller than Eric's was and it has me wondering how much of that Jubilee horsepower I would actually be able to use. I live in a fairly conventional neighborhood and Eric lives in a custom large lot community. I am for sure going to experience neighbor listening fatigue and the associated master association letter of noise abatement. I want them badly, but to what end... I don't really listen above 85db to often and even that level is loud for my situation.

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Hmmm.  3 feet distance between the speakers I'm sure is plenty right 🤔 haha?   I won't have that problem as the dbs rise and would in fact welcome it. Getting them through the door may be the problem.... Why I just went second best from the jubes.... 

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32 minutes ago, Schu said:

I don't really listen above 85db too often and even that level is loud for my situation.

Well loud for me is 83 dB--about the level at which most music tracks are mastered (see Bob Katz's "III. The Magic of '83' with Film Mixes).  But if I listened at that level all the time, my hearing would begin to degrade, too.  Most of the time I'm listening at 65-75 dB and I have to say that it sounds outstanding even at those levels--after they've been dial-in with the room treatments, etc. 

 

When I first got my Jubs years ago, they also sounded best at higher SPL.  But as I found better room treatments and DSP settings, and after switching to TADs, they sounded better and better at lower SPL.  They now have the best detail and clarity that I've heard from any loudspeakers I've heard--on par with the MEHs  and dipoles I've heard.

 

Chris

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16 hours ago, Born2RockU said:

How Wide is that room ?

 

Also, how is the Phantom Center, with the Jubes spread that wide ?

 

7 hours ago, richieb said:

 

=== If I may step in here - my experience with Jubes, 24 feet across center to center is, without a doubt, a center speaker is present and easily defined. 

 

4 hours ago, richieb said:
6 hours ago, Westcoastdrums said:

You are stating that a strong phantom center is present with the jubes being spaced 24 feet and that a center was not required, correct? 

 

=== absolutely 

Same experience here, the room is 24' wide, no center needed. You can walk toward the TV on the back wall between the speakers and get within 6'-7' of the back wall and the sound still sounds like it from the center. The 402 horn apparently throws a very wide pattern compared to most horns.  

 

This is not jubes but the same top horn.

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So that's what  Schu and family look like in real life :D It's nice to meet people in person and sometimes hear something different. :emotion-21:  

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48 minutes ago, Westcoastdrums said:

Hmmm.  3 feet distance between the speakers I'm sure is plenty right 🤔 haha?   I won't have that problem as the dbs rise and would in fact welcome it. Getting them through the door may be the problem.... Why I just went second best from the jubes.... 

 

=== someone correct me if I’m wrong but I’m certain I heard Chief Bonehead say - the smaller the room, the bigger the horn - 

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^^^^^

=== and like Chris, although my Jubes use passive networks and Faital drivers they sound full, well balanced and quite enjoyable at low level listening. “Well balanced” stands out as a good description — 

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7 minutes ago, dtel said:

Same experience here, the room is 24' wide, no center needed. You can walk toward the TV on the back wall between the speakers and get within 6'-7' of the back wall and the sound still sounds like it from the center. The 402 horn apparently throws a very wide pattern compared to most horns. 

Some caveats that I think need to be stated here:

 

1) most people are assuming that you're on-axis centered between the centerlines of the Jubs when you report having a good phantom center image even at 25 feet of separation of K-402s.  (If off-axis just a little bit, the center image shifts to the closest Jub--just like stereo does in any other context.)

 

2) While you may get very good phantom center imaging with widely spaced Jubs, there really is no need to space them widely as there is using Khorns, due to much better the time alignment of the Jubs vs. Khorns, and much better control of early reflections in the midrange band than the Khorn midrange horns (even the aftermarket ones that have the relatively small mouth dimensions like the K-400). 

 

3) Clarity of lyrics/speech is strongly affected by having a center loudspeaker--just as PWK was a proponent of 3-channel operation from the early 1960s.  also, the center image is locked in by using a dialed-in center channel, in case you're not exactly on centerline.  This is a pretty big deal.

 

So Craig's use of a center channel Jub has some really good supporting reasons to be there.

 

 

2 minutes ago, richieb said:

 

=== someone correct me if I’m wrong but I’m certain I heard Chief Bonehead say - the smaller the room, the bigger the horn - 

Yes. This is easy to visualize when you realize that most of the issues with small rooms has to do with early reflections from around the loudspeakers.  The lower the frequency that you can control these early reflections, the better the sound and this is the dominant issue with small listening rooms.

 

Chris

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10 minutes ago, richieb said:

 

=== someone correct me if I’m wrong but I’m certain I heard Chief Bonehead say - the smaller the room, the bigger the horn - 

Your not wrong, I heard the same thing, something about the bigger horn controls the room easier, or better.

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8 minutes ago, Chris A said:

Some caveats that I think need to be stated here

Your right, I was just comparing to any other horn I used in the same room. I couldn't use other speakers in that room spread out to the side walls without a hole in the center.

 

I remember hearing the 402 horn for the first time in the lab listening room, I was setting all the way to a side wall and it sounded fine, a different speaker was used and it was so different in the same spot I had to get up and go to the center of the room to hear the same thing thinking something was wrong.

 

 

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7 hours ago, Schu said:

The fact that it's a pro set set comes shining thru and the jubilee is really not for the faint of heart in a Home scenario.

 

But keep in mind, these were originally designed to be in the home, the fact that they're good enough to be in the cinema lineup is just icing on the cake.

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1 hour ago, Chris A said:

 

So Craig's use of a center channel Jub has some really good supporting reasons to be there.

Roger that. Given an unlimited budget I'd have 'em all the way around like Rigma.

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1 hour ago, richieb said:

=== someone correct me if I’m wrong but I’m certain I heard Chief Bonehead say - the smaller the room, the bigger the horn - 

 

I thought he was just a marketing genius and was saying that to sell the idea to us schleps??

 

:ohmy:

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10 minutes ago, Coytee said:

 

But keep in mind, these were originally designed to be in the home, the fact that they're good enough to be in the cinema lineup is just icing on the cake.

I forgot about that but your right, just the opposite of what most people think since they are used so often in cinema.

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Yeah...  I guess I'm a bit OCD on constantly saying/reminding that but it seems the mantra keeps being repeated how they're too big or industrial for the home....  that will become "reality" and the real reality that they were in fact designed for the home will wither away.

 

(say something enough times and people will start to believe it kind of thing)

 

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A lot of people talk about "PA systems" when  they're referring to cinema loudspeakers.  These two loudspeaker types don't have the same requirements, however.  Being able to cover all the seats in a large theater with consistent hi-fi sounding acoustic energy at all audible frequencies is a very difficult thing to do--especially doing it economically.  I'm pretty sure that most people who consider themselves "audiophiles" are not thinking about that when they try to look down on cinema loudspeakers.  I've personally found that cinema loudspeakers as a group are actually better performing than "hi-fi" loudspeakers, however.

 

Additionally, most audiophiles assume that you have to be in a sweet spot to listen to loudspeakers.  In my listening room with Jubs and a center K-402-MEH, the whole room is a sweet spot--front to back, side to side.  I don't believe many people are thinking about that type of performance in the home environment.  I'd call it an "exciting product characteristic" because most people don't even think about the possibility of having that capability and what it really means if they could have it.

 

Chris

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