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R-115 Movies vs. Music


bozzchem

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Hello,

 

When using the R-115 watching movies, the bass will literally shake things off my walls...and it's tuned down quite a bit.  I probably should have went with the R-112 since at times the rumbling will drown out vocals from the front speakers and center channel.

 

What I don't understand is why there is such a difference in bass when listening to music.  When in stereo mode on my Onkyo TX-NR737, I can turn the volume damn near all the way up and the bass just doesn't seem to react like it does while watching movies.  The sound is clean and distortion is practically non-existent.  I'm just wondering where the bass went.  I know this sub is a housewrecker for movies but it's pretty tame for music - in my house.

 

Front speakers for stereo mode are RP-280FA, if that helps.  Center channel is a RP-450CA.

 

Obviously, I haven't set something up properly.  Any tips on how to troubleshoot will be greatly appreciated.

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12 minutes ago, dtr20 said:

Not that I know anything about your receiver, but in general, a lot of receivers turn off the sub when listening in stereo mode.

Based upon what I'm hearing, that wouldn't surprise me.  Then again, based on going through all of the settings, that shouldn't be happening.

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4 minutes ago, bozzchem said:

Movies = Fire Stick for streaming, PS4 Blu Ray for DVD

Music  = Bluetooth via phone/tablet

Hmmmm.  I looked at the owners manual for your AVR and there really aren't a lot of adjustments allowed.  I'd try a couple things.  First try using a cable instead of Bluetooth and see if it makes any difference.  I'd also look at the settings in the audio output of your tablet.  See if you can look at the sound card or just the settings and see if anything looks amiss.

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Put your hand on the sub and make sure it is actually on.   Check your source and make sure the eq is flat.   Check the display of the receiver and make sure it shows the sub on the front during music (most will show what speakers are on).  You may have to individually set the "speakers" to play separately under each mode.  Movies tend to have the bass quite boosted at certain frequencies for that rumble effect you speak of.  If you play a bass heavy song you know and it lacks bass notably, it is Def a setting IMO or like previous post said, sub may be off.  

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18 minutes ago, derrickdj1 said:

Your source of music is ok, you have a reverb and standing wave problems.  T!he gear is fine, the room is not!

 

Hopefully, I'll get a chance to walk through these suggestions over the next couple of days to see if the problem can be determined.

 

If it's the room....I'm probably screwed without knowing what I can do to fix the room.  Lord knows it's tough to keep things on the walls with the R-115 while watching a movie.  I have the broken glass to prove it.  Why the room is good for movies and not for music is beyond my level of understanding/expertise.

 

Thanks to all for taking the time to answer and participate.  If you have any other suggestions for me to continue with my troubleshooting they too will be much appreciated.

 

I'll keep you updated on my progress.

 

I have a set of R-51PM on the way that I hope to connect to an old KSW-15 sub for my workout room.  This will be a strictly bluetooth system and could become a topic in another forum.  I tried "The Three" and it just didn't work out for what I expected.  Once the new gear is in, I'll get it installed and see if switching plans was a wise move.

 

Once you go Klipsch, there's no going back.

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17 minutes ago, derrickdj1 said:

There is already a fix.  Give us more info on the  room and gear.  Some problems can be fixed by just a small rug or shifting furniture.

 

Room: 21' x 13'

AVR: Onkyo TX-NR737

Front Speakers: RP-280FA

Center Speaker: RP-450CA

Surrounds: RS3 Reference Surrounds (old timers)

Sub: R-115

TV: Vizio M70 C3

 

The room is being remodeled so there is a combination of carpet and laminate flooring.  Once the room is completed, there will be no carpet in the room.  I have to admit that the room is a hot mess so there's not doubt that your suggestion the room is an issue could certainly be a highly contributing factor to the issues I'm having with music.

My lack of understanding is how movies shake the room and music has minimal bass.

 

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1 hour ago, CECAA850 said:

Hmmmm.  I looked at the owners manual for your AVR and there really aren't a lot of adjustments allowed.  I'd try a couple things.  First try using a cable instead of Bluetooth and see if it makes any difference.  I'd also look at the settings in the audio output of your tablet.  See if you can look at the sound card or just the settings and see if anything looks amiss.

 

Honestly, if bluetooth doesn't work for my setup, I'd rather get a new AVR.  Sad, since I bought this AVR a few years back based upon its bluetooth and Atmos abilities.  I prefer Denon but they didn't have an AVR with these abilities when I bought this AVR.  This could well be my first and last Onkyo purchase.  There is also an issue with the Onkyo for playing mp4 files from a connected USB external hard drive.  It won't do it.  Had that been made clear to me, I never would have purchased it to begin with.

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4 minutes ago, Westcoastdrums said:

I suspect Bluetooth may be the problem.   Try the same source using some some of line level connection and see if there is a difference. I would guess the answer would be yes.   

 

I suppose I could find a CD and test that.  In my mind, 2018 means that bluetooth/digital music should be readily playable by all reputable brands.

If I can't play music via bluetooth and/or wifi with high fidelity, it's time to find an AVR that can.

(Assuming I understood your suggestion) 🙂

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1 hour ago, dtr20 said:

Not that I know anything about your receiver, but in general, a lot of receivers turn off the sub when listening in stereo mode.

 

Gently lay your fingertips on the subwoofer cone to see if it is vibrating when you play music with a lot of bass.

 

The subwoofer output on the AVR carries two kinds of bass, which the AVR mixes together:  1) bass from each of the main channels BELOW the crossover (i.e. "bass management bass"), and 2) LFE, Low Frequency Effects, put there by filmmakers.  Most music sources do not contain the second source.  LFE effects in movies can be very powerful.  In all but a few multichannel music disks, true LFE is completely absent from music recordings. 

 

There is also an old habit of shaving off the bass in music recording, a hangover from older vinyl recording practices.  Something like  1/3 of my CDs have attenuated bass.  In a lot of music it's not noticeable, since, except for organ, synthesizer, and a few other  instruments, there is little music written with fundamentals below about 40 Hz.

 

Some people use a LARGE setting for 2 channel music.  If they knowingly turn off the subwoofer, and let the main speakers handle the bass, that's fine.  With some music I do that, letting my Klipschorns reproduce the bass -- the Khorns sound tighter and more precise than the subwoofer in the bass down to a bit below 40 Hz.  For pipe organ, or some great orchestral works, I turn the sub back on, and set the Khorns to SMALL (horrors!) with the crossover at about 40 or 50 Hz  -- for movies, all crossovers are at 80 Hz and the main speakers are on SMALL.   Typically, setting the AVR speaker circuits for LARGE means, "don't send anything to the subwoofer," UNLESS you also use a setting that circumvents this.  I don't know what terminology your AVR uses, but typical settings that bring the subwoofer back in are "Double Bass" or " "Main + LFE," etc. (along with "Subwoofer YES)."   For some people, this provides notably more vigorous bass, but in other rooms, other speaker positions and other  listener positions, it causes bass peaks and valleys, due to unseemly multipath interaction of the main speakers and the subwoofer.

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I was gokgn to ask that as well, what is your crossover frequency on the sub?   If you have it crossed over really low, that would make sense why you feel that music has no bass and movies shakes the pictures off the walls and breaks them.   Raise your crossover frequency as high as 80 hz slowly.   Also, do you have a phase on the sub?  Make sure your speakers and subs are in phase so that you don't have cancelation as certain frequencies and or emphasis in others.  

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