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DIY kit-feedback

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so I have decided (and been informed from comments/answers to previous questions) that I want to add at least 1 sub to my system, used 80% HT, Cornwall mains, phantom center, and R-28F rears.  I'd love to go what seems to be really strong with an SVS or R-115SW but the fiance would be more willing to go along with cost of a DIY, and would probably like to get her hands in on the build too, so that could be a plus.

 

I want to add as much low end for mostly movies as possible but size is a concern.  size:  I'm thinking a sealed or ported sub about the size of a 115sw.

room:  is an open concept floor plan, LR open to dining area & kitchen.  LR area where tv/audio are = about 20 x 15.  don't know height for sure but I think typical/standard 8' ceiling

 

I've been goofing off at work, reading, searching and like this kit from PE:  the Dayton Audio 15" Ultimax + cabinet bundle

PE product link

 

but I don't yet understand all the details of the specs etc.

would some of you more experienced sub & DIY guys please share your thoughts on this or other suggestions, as well as, if I go something like this (this would be a passive sub, yes?) suggestion/recommendation for amp.  the comments on the PE kit page have a few suggestions but I haven't checked into them yet.  many thanks!

 

-John

 

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Hi js,

 

Got one of these kits about 6 months ago (actually with the HF speaker as the Ultimax was "out of stock" ... note; do NOT get the "HO" speaker).  Fit was excellent; pretty easy to put together.  Veneered mine and put feet on it to make it a downward firing sub.  Looks awesome :D Using a DaytonAudio SA1000 to power it. Sound is excellent, probably as good as many $1000+ "already build" units.

 

Passive use??? Never tried it with "just my AVR." These woofers are really, really heavy and think you need some good power (at least 200W ???) to drive it :(  Sure someone with more sub experience will chime in.

 

Cheers, Emile

IMG_2092.JPG

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@Emile - thanks for the feedback Emile.  sounds like you like yours pretty well, positively impressed with sound, overall results, build quality - all that.

by "passive" use - and I do ask that, as I'm not sure if I'm using the term correctly - I ask if I use the term correctly here, that this type kit would be a passive kit as in the amp is separate from the sub.  as compared to for ex a R-115SW that I think has amp + speaker all in one so to speak that I also ask is that one an "active" sub?

 

at any rate, thanks again for your contribution sir.   you're ok.  I don't care what everyone else says.

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53 minutes ago, -js- said:

Cornwall mains, phantom center, and R-28F rears

 

Phantom center = no center? I have mine set up like that and it is amazing how well it works when set up right! Using CF-4s front and KG4s rear.

 

I am also looking for a budget sub and that Dayton setup looks promising for my very small room. Good luck!

 

Rick

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@Cody_Mack correct.  no 'actual' center speaker (at this time).  down the road, maybe, but not right now.

I like the current setup I have.  the fiance thinks we need a center (or wants one).  maybe we do.  right now, I'm not convinced.  I want the LFE/ lows particularly in the action movie genre we both enjoy.

good luck in your search as well Rick.  thanks!

 

-John

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25 minutes ago, -js- said:

by "passive" use - and I do ask that, as I'm not sure if I'm using the term correctly - I ask if I use the term correctly here, that this type kit would be a passive kit as in the amp is separate from the sub.

Got you :D  Thought you meant passive WITHOUT an amp ... just running it from the "source amp." ... which I think will not have enough power :( 

 

You can always "saw a hole" in the box and put in a plate amp.  But, it's a lot easier just to buy an external sub-amp.  Most of these have 2 outputs in case you want to add a 2nd sub :)  Got my 1000W Dayton SA1000 off Fleabay for a little over $200 :) 

 

BTW, seems "seperate" amps last longer than "build-in" amps.

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I actually have picked up a KV-4 from a Forum member; however I have to modify my equipment rack (raise the TV up 5") for the center to fit in its proper place. I'm sure it's going to add much to the system, but at the moment the phantom center works very well.

 

Rick

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Re center channel speakers ...

NoCenter.jpg

Before you get a center speaker, I suggest you read the article https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=89614 

 

I tried 4 different Klipsch center speakers ... and was never really satisfied - except that they "looked nice."  Then, tried a Yamaha 12" stage monitor and the difference was unbelievable.  OK; was a "rat fur" box (WAF=0.0) so replaced it a couple of weeks later with a Heresy, similar to my L/R speakers on my AVR. Now I am one of those "opinionated people" with left=right=center speaker :D

 

Cheers, Emile

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15 minutes ago, Emile said:

Got you :D  Thought you meant passive WITHOUT an amp ... just running it from the "source amp." ... which I think will not have enough power :( 

 

You can always "saw a hole" in the box and put in a plate amp.  But, it's a lot easier just to buy an external sub-amp.  Most of these have 2 outputs in case you want to add a 2nd sub :)  Got my 1000W Dayton SA1000 off Fleabay for a little over $200 :) 

 

BTW, seems "seperate" amps last longer than "build-in" amps.

 

gotcha.  and I agree that using either my source (AVR) or even using 1 ch from my Acurus main amp (200w) I don't think would be really enough power to adequately drive a sub well.

and thanks for the idea on your Dayton.  hadn't thought or searching the bay, but excellent idea, given proper vetting prior to purchase.

 

 

17 minutes ago, Cody_Mack said:

I actually have picked up a KV-4 from a Forum member; however I have to modify my equipment rack (raise the TV up 5") for the center to fit in its proper place. I'm sure it's going to add much to the system, but at the moment the phantom center works very well.

 

Rick

 

doing what I do, I made a list of what seemed to be most highly recommended center ch speakers.  I do think eventually I'll be adding one of them too.  may have a lot to offer.

what I think I like at this point are, in order of my preference beginning with most preferred: 1) - KLF-C7;     2) - RC-64 ii     3) - RC-62 ii

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10 minutes ago, -js- said:

order of my preference beginning with most preferred: 1) - KLF-C7;     2) - RC-64 ii     3) - RC-62 ii

Haha ... just saw you have "sidelined" Heresy's.  Try one as a center before spending big bucks on a "horizontal" one :D Think it might pair pretty good with your Cornwall's. (Had Cornwall's L/R, but only tried them with "horizontal" centers.  Replaced them with KPT-904's (on a seperate amp), moved the CW's to the rear and added L/R/C Heresy's on my AVR.)

 

Haha ... lot's of stuff to try :D 

 

Have fun, Emile

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@Emile I wish I could use a Heresy, 3rd Cornwall, or had other choices.  but this is the setup that passed the WAF so this is what I have to work with.

front wall LR.jpg

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4 minutes ago, -js- said:

this is the setup that passed the WAF

Haha ... completely understand :D  My wife still has "problems" with my center Heresy :) 

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I understand.  mine, well my wife-to-be, has cut me off regarding speakers.  she says NO MO.  but she's also said "they don't get any bigger than the K horn, do they?"

of course I answered with a BIG smile "oh yeah.  here, check these babies out!!!"

 

as you can see, right now our room just has little room for anything more.

as a slight aside - I only recently became re-employed following a post murder merger downsizing.  while job searching we were ready to move elsewhere if a good job dictated it.

we didn't have to move.  so that has become a hopeful elective possibility down the road.

I would like something a little larger than we have now.  WITH CORNERS 😎

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1 hour ago, Emile said:

note; do NOT get the "HO" speaker).

I'm going to have to disagree with my friend Emile here, but he and I have talked about that before but I don't think Emile ever owned the HO.  My experience is different from his, and that's OK.  Get a couple of different view points then decide for yourself.  :)

+++

 

I currently own and use both the Ultimax 15 and the Reference 15.  I recommend the Reference 15.

https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-15-reference-series-ho-subwoofer-and-cabinet-bundle--300-7093

 

+++

Ultimax 15"  I have that exact bundle you linked to, 15" sealed sub.  I run mine with an external amp with built-in DSP, the Behringer 3000dsp.  You can still find them used for about $200 shipped. 

 

The 3000dsp has recently been d/c'd and this is the link to the new model NX3000D which is now painted black and has a quieter fan. 

 

If you run the NX3000D you will need to do more work or at the least order special cables as you cannot run an RCA cable into or out of it without an adapter or custom cable.  It uses pro audio style (modified) Neutrek Speakon connectors for output to the sub.  You will use modified (2-wire) XLR cables IN.  All of these will be un-balanced cables.   The DSP feature is entirely customization and can be controlled via software on your PC.

https://www.parts-express.com/behringer-nx3000d-ultra-lightweight-class-d-3000w-power-amplifier-with-dsp--248-7013

 

The Umax 15 technically has better specs.  Higher power handling and digs a little deeper.  I found the bass more muddy compared to the Reference 15 but part of that might be accounted for my my inexperience with the Inuke DSP features.

 

Reference 15:  I run the Reference 15 with a 500 watt Yung plate amp SD500 w/bass boost.  You will need bass boost for a sealed sub which boosts 6 db at 25 Hz.  Ported does not use bass boost.  There are other good plate amps you could use if you find a deal.

https://www.parts-express.com/yung-sd500-6-500w-class-d-subwoofer-plate-amplifier-module-with-6-db-at-25-hz--301-514

 

The Reference 15 is more accurate IMO.  It adds a solid bottom end to my CF-4's with no boominess.

 

I would pick the Reference 15 for music and movies, the Umax 15 for movies only.  Both will move lots of air.

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3 minutes ago, wvu80 said:

I'm going to have to disagree with my friend Emile here, but he and I have talked before.  My experience is different from his, and that's OK.  Get a couple of different view points then decide for yourself.  :)

 

thanks Dave.  appreciate your input as well as Emile's.  and as I'm typically slow to react when needing (more WANTING than needing.  I'm sure you fellas know exactly what I mean.) WAF to spend the coin, this probably won't happen anytime soon.  but again, doing what I do, I like to try to gather experienced advice to try to make the best possible informed decision.

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3 minutes ago, wvu80 said:

I'm going to have to disagree with my friend Emile here, but he and I have talked before.

Haha :D  Just to bring @-js- up to speed on our discussion since he seems "ready to buy" :)

I had several discussions with PartsExpress when I was looking at the 15" subwoofer kits.  Was told the "HO - high output" speaker was suited better for automotive applications whereas the "HF - high fidelity" speaker was better for home use.  But of course this was just from a guy there "selling" the stuff :( 

 

But; great info ... much detail ... and much better than my "got one, sounds great."

 

Cheers, Emile

 

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33 minutes ago, -js- said:

Thanks Dave.  appreciate your input as well as Emile's.

 I agree.  The really good thing about differing viewpoints is it helps us to go deeper with our thinking on any subject, in this case subs.

 

I picked up the dual Umax subs after Emile and I were discussing the HO vs the Umax drivers.  I've been experimenting with the Inuke's DSP function, and running a single sub and dual subs.  I now have more experience but I feel I still need more knowledge on how to properly use the DSP.

 

Just as important a decision IMO is what amp to run.  If you run the NX3000D it will pair nicely with a single sub, either model.  The real savings is when you pick up a second sub since the NX3000D has dual output channels and can easily drive both subs.  In that case you save the cost of a second amp.

 

Here is the Umax 15 and the dual Inuke 3000dsp.  The cable out of the front of the Inuke is the USB cable which lets me control it through the Inuke software in my Windows computer.  Once the setup is finalized it can be removed.

 

921994760_CheapThrillonCF-4small.thumb.jpg.8defb546685cf7a984aec0bf24939d08.jpg

 

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If you put a plate amp in the box you are subtracting from the volume of the box. The box was designed for just the volume of the driver, unless otherwise stated by box designer. This will have an effect. Good, bad, major, minor?

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52 minutes ago, babadono said:

If you put a plate amp in the box you are subtracting from the volume of the box. The box was designed for just the volume of the driver, unless otherwise stated by box designer. This will have an effect. Good, bad, major, minor?

Very minor IMO.  The plate amps don't take up that much internal real estate.  Opinion only, I don't have data to back that up.

 

With the DIY stuff unless you are really zeroing in on a specific number the exact box tuning is approximate.  For instance DIYSoundgroup (and PE) sells flatpacks for subs usually in 2, 3 or 4 cuft.  They will accommodate a 12, 15 or 18 driver.  The amp's power makes more of a difference how low a sub will dig than a minor deviation in box volume.

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2 hours ago, wvu80 said:

... <quoted text shortened>

I currently own and use both the Ultimax 15 and the Reference 15.  I recommend the Reference 15.

https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-15-reference-series-ho-subwoofer-and-cabinet-bundle--300-7093

 

+++

Ultimax 15"  I have that exact bundle you linked to, 15" sealed sub.  I run mine with an external amp with built-in DSP, the Behringer 3000dsp.  You can still find them used for about $200 shipped. 

 

The 3000dsp has recently been d/c'd and this is the link to the new model NX3000D which is now painted black and has a quieter fan. 

 

The Umax 15 technically has better specs.  Higher power handling and digs a little deeper.  I found the bass more muddy compared to the Reference 15 but part of that might be accounted for my my inexperience with the Inuke DSP features.

 

Reference 15:  I run the Reference 15 with a 500 watt Yung plate amp SD500 w/bass boost.  You will need bass boost for a sealed sub which boosts 6 db at 25 Hz.  Ported does not use bass boost.  There are other good plate amps you could use if you find a deal.

https://www.parts-express.com/yung-sd500-6-500w-class-d-subwoofer-plate-amplifier-module-with-6-db-at-25-hz--301-514

 

The Reference 15 is more accurate IMO.  It adds a solid bottom end to my CF-4's with no boominess.

 

I would pick the Reference 15 for music and movies, the Umax 15 for movies only.  Both will move lots of air.

 

 

so does anyone have any opinions on comparison of this

 

4 hours ago, -js- said:

the Dayton Audio 15" Ultimax + cabinet bundle

PE product link

 

to any "ready-made, plug & play" products like R-115SW, any SVS products, etc.?  bang per $ lol, frequency comparisons, SPL?

thanks in advance.  -John

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