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Facebook on PBS Frontline


Zen Traveler

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Jeff and I were having a discussion on another thread and after watching the first episode realized it connected into several other discussions as well. I don't wish the thread to be closed for political reasons and if we keep discussion on how Facebook works and how it influences in connection with the PBS documentary it could be fun. :) 

 

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On ‎10‎/‎31‎/‎2018 at 8:36 PM, Jeff Matthews said:

It's easy to hurl criticisms like these, but facts are becoming harder and harder to come by in the media.  Speaking of the media's influence, why isn't it equally "unbelievable" that some of us spend more time debating the Russian media's influence and picking sides?  Just wondering...

 

And oh, what if American media outlets engaged in similar local propaganda campaigns using the same techniques as the Russians did?  Would that be permitted free speech, or would you suggest putting them on the Magnitsky list, too?  I'd be curious to see how you'd have our government police the US media.

 

 

Here is the post that intrigued me because I found out some of my friends think Twitter and FB are "the Media" and they are not! As the fist episode points out both of these entities aren't governed by the same rules as actual media organization and so aren't responsible for the ACTUAL "media" sources other's provide including 3rd party issuers who aren't always disclosed.

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4 minutes ago, Zen Traveler said:

Here is the post that intrigued me because I found out some of my friends think Twitter and FB are "the Media" and they are not! As the fist episode points out both of these entities aren't governed by the same rules as actual media organization and so aren't responsible for the ACTUAL "media" sources other's provide including 3rd party issuers who aren't always disclosed.

 

=== “they are not the media” is so true. However, for the under 30 year old generation (whatever the helll they’re called these days) social media IS the media. Our kids and kids-in-laws virtually never watch any traditional news shows. And that’s quite obvious from all nightly news hours being sponsered by Big Pharma catering to us “old folks”. So while you and I know what true media is or the media we grew up with the younger generation have no such thoughts or exposure to. And let’s also be honest here - there are virtually no news outlets per se, more like editorial commentary leaning L or R, very little in between. 

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54 minutes ago, oldtimer said:

False accounts hiding behind agenda driven propaganda do not qualify for "free speech."  Citizens are guaranteed free speech,  bots are not.  Giving forms of AI the rights of humans can only degrade what it means to be human.

Wrong.  Bots are tools made by humans to carry out human agendas.  Taking one's bots would be like taking one's guns - except that my right to bots is secured by the 1st Amendment, while my right to guns is in the 2nd.

 

Propaganda is protected speech, subject only to defamation laws which are pretty relaxed when it comes to speech concerning public figures.

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1 hour ago, JJkizak said:

I thought Google owned YouTube?

JJK

 

1 hour ago, TasDom said:

I could be wrong, but I believe Google owns YouTube 

Thanks fellas....I just get so tickled that the artwork (link) makes anyone's thread look like a professionally produced discussion. I'll change the original post. :) 

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1 hour ago, richieb said:

However, for the under 30 year old generation (whatever the helll they’re called these days) social media IS the media.

I thought this too until I researched it further. Right now I'm on Facebook having a discussion with a friend who is a successful businessman in Ireland (expatriate). He has been sending me what he thinks are legitimate "News" stories  from Twitter. When I point out that the original links came from Breitbart and Infowars and those are not considered fact-based media and that Twitter is NOT a media company, he didn't seem to understand and  asked, "Who am I to say what is media or not!" He rallies against something called the "MSM" and I can't get a legitimate answer if FoxNews is considered "Mainstream." Fwiw,  I am starting to be persuaded  they are, which may surprise some people. 

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22 minutes ago, Jeff Matthews said:

Wrong.  Bots are tools made by humans to carry out human agendas.  Taking one's bots would be like taking one's guns - except that my right to bots is secured by the 1st Amendment, while my right to guns is in the 2nd.

 

Propaganda is protected speech, subject only to defamation laws which are pretty relaxed when it comes to speech concerning public figures.

Propaganda agreed.  Taking a citizens bot might be an issue, or not.  A foreign agent has no such rights.  It is the hidden aspect which is the issue in my opinion.

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22 minutes ago, Jeff Matthews said:
1 hour ago, oldtimer said:

False accounts hiding behind agenda driven propaganda do not qualify for "free speech."  Citizens are guaranteed free speech,  bots are not.  Giving forms of AI the rights of humans can only degrade what it means to be human.

Wrong.  Bots are tools made by humans to carry out human agendas.  Taking one's bots would be like taking one's guns - except that my right to bots is secured by the 1st Amendment, while my right to guns is in the 2nd.

Excellent discussion and analogy and why in the 21st Century there needs to be another discussion on both!

 

22 minutes ago, Jeff Matthews said:

 

 

Propaganda is protected speech, subject only to defamation laws which are pretty relaxed when it comes to speech concerning public figures.

The new dynamic is that no one realized who was saying what and if real people were involved. I joined Facebook almost a year ago and things have supposedly changed drastically on that front, at least here in the USA--One of the things that the Documentary exposed is how much isn't done in other countries. What happened in Egypt was an excellent example....I haven't watched episode 2 but feel it will shed light more on disclosure (who is promoting)  than what is actually said, or spread.

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8 minutes ago, oldtimer said:

Propaganda agreed.  Taking a citizens bot might be an issue, or not.  A foreign agent has no such rights.  It is the hidden aspect which is the issue in my opinion.

Watch the documentary. You and I have had superficial discussions on what we both know is true, but watching the FACTUAL way this works is really eye-opening.

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10 minutes ago, Khornukopia said:

Someone can change our perception of the world we read about with a few keystrokes. That is power.

One of the things I didn't consider as deeply until I saw the documentary was that Facebook allows EVERY pov, factual, moral or neither to have the same tools.  Then they started something called a Newsfeed that has been since discontinued that focused this material to your account, making it seem legitimate and contemporary--That is where the term "Fake News" came from in it's current usage....{Note: Episode 2 will probably cover the underlying 3rd Parties that went further in this regard.}

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14 minutes ago, oldtimer said:

Furthermore, if you want to consider a bot a tool, you are responsible personally for what the tool does, just as with your arms.  Again, unleashing tools with a hidden identity defeats the concept of a personal right.

Exactly! So far that is what I see as the changing dynamic at Facebook....That said, this election I saw a meme that I called out a week ago and feel vindicated because nothing came of the story, although I'm sure some folks reacted internally when they saw it. 😒

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I don't read Facebook news or watch TV news. I do go to a lot of live music events and also visit the great outdoors and National Parks. The world is a very beautiful place.

 

I am glad that you are concerned with the state of affairs of our civilization and hope you can influence society in a positive way.

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