Facebook on PBS Frontline

[Bosco-d-gama]

I attempt to digest issues in terms of common sense. For example most (if not all) sovereign countries would not allow totally free access to immigrants. It makes no difference if an immigrant is the best or the worst person a process must be adhered to in order to insure the management and welfare of the state. This is foundational and understandable. Any posturing to the contrary is simply posturing for political purposes. A great many highly charged issues can be reduced to what, in reality, actually works. Insofar as the media goes they all remind me of the ‘hordes’ headed to Frankenstein’s place to deal with their personal beasts. Truly things seem out-of-control. They've been headed that way for the last 100 years but the tipping point was reached during the last prex campaigns. Now we see nonsense as a matter of routine and it is sad how many accept outlandish as valid. 

[JJkizak]

I thought the Facebook documentary on PBS was very good. Actually "Kids" created Facebook for other "Kids". Then the nasty adults took over and exploited it.

JJK

[Zen Traveler]

2 hours ago, Jeff Matthews said:

The SCt has held that the 1st Amendment protects anonymous speech, too.  

IF you watch the Documentary there is a special clause put into regulation that specifically states Internet companies can't be liable for stuff folks post.

2 hours ago, oldtimer said:

But not anonymous arms damage.  It's not so cut and dried.  And once again, this is for citizens. 

This is again where Jeff and I may agree that their industry is going to start policing themselves...After all, this is about communication and look what happened to that social media outlet the last mass shooter was associated with--He acted upon "Fake News," and after reading his words the site seemed to go under because no one wanted to be associated with it.

 

Another example is Facebook now has information link to each news source posted--The mainstream sources can be differentiated from Conspiracy and "Fake News"  peddlers and eventually the latter won't have a following as their crap gets debunked and exposed.

2 hours ago, oldtimer said:

 

I brought it up to get people thinking, which was maybe a bad idea during football games.

Don't get me started.....

[Zen Traveler]

1 hour ago, Bosco-d-gama said:

I attempt to digest issues in terms of common sense.

This is exactly how I approach things.

 

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For example most (if not all) sovereign countries would not allow totally free access to immigrants. It makes no difference if an immigrant is the best or the worst person a process must be adhered to in order to insure the management and welfare of the state. This is foundational and understandable.

Actually, the immigration issue is one that IS being exploited on social media. As I explained to Jeff, it made me realize  there were others out there getting/discussing their "Fake News" from outlets that weren't scrutinized from the inside and in the end that is why Facebook got into trouble--That was covered in the documentary.

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Any posturing to the contrary is simply posturing for political purposes. A great many highly charged issues can be reduced to what, in reality, actually works.

Agreed but there appears not to be any solutions being discussed that can bring consensus--That is why we have elections.

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Insofar as the media goes they all remind me of the ‘hordes’ headed to Frankenstein’s place to deal with their personal beasts. Truly things seem out-of-control. They've been headed that way for the last 100 years but the tipping point was reached during the last prex campaigns. Now we see nonsense as a matter of routine and it is sad how many accept outlandish as valid.  

Fwiw, I put part of the blame on the media, some on capitalism, but mainly I blame the folks who are lead astray and don't ask questions of their leaders (or media sources). 

[oldtimer]

I'd get you started, but I'm watching football...

[Zen Traveler]

1 hour ago, JJkizak said:

 I thought the Facebook documentary on PBS was very good. Actually "Kids" created Facebook for other "Kids". Then the nasty adults took over and exploited it.

JJK

I thought the part where they asked Zuckerberg and that chick about people's privacy was interesting....Gotta admit they sounded convincing but the interview where he got rattled spoke volumes to what I expect is going to come in episode 2....Most of it I thought I knew  but was surprised to learn new things in the one I watched...Hope to get to it either tonight or tomorrow.

[Zen Traveler]

3 minutes ago, oldtimer said:

I'd get you started, but I'm watching football...

I know that you are and appreciate you getting with us on the commercial breaks. 

[Zen Traveler]

22 hours ago, Zen Traveler said:

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Propaganda is protected speech, subject only to defamation laws which are pretty relaxed when it comes to speech concerning public figures.

The new dynamic is that no one realized who was saying what and if real people were involved. I joined Facebook almost a year ago and things have supposedly changed drastically on that front, at least here in the USA--One of the things that the Documentary exposed is how much isn't done in other countries. What happened in Egypt was an excellent example....I haven't watched episode 2 but feel it will shed light more on disclosure (who is promoting)  than what is actually said, or spread.

@Jeff Matthews 13 min 20 seconds in they are discussing The Communications Decency Act section 230 which gave Social Internet companies immunity from being sued for liable and made it different than traditional broadcasters and networks--This lead to the discussion  on the algorithm that directed what Facebook users got in their Newsfeed and it wasn't random and ONLY targeted news/stuff they wanted to hear--THIS is how Fake News got so prevalent and made it seem many outlandish and fake stories had merit because they were being reported from several sources (that later proved to be made up entities).

 

22 hours ago, oldtimer said:

But not anonymous arms damage.  It's not so cut and dried.  And once again, this is for citizens.  I brought it up to get people thinking,

I agree. I watched episode 2 this morning and it gets into that. It showed how a fake news story that was sensationalized got more hits that a traditional news source reporting  real scandal.

[Zen Traveler]

One of the things from Episode 1 that blew my mind was that not only did Facebook have all the information users provided, even deleted material was kept by the company...To add on to the things I didn't know and would guess most didn't, Facebook actually bought information on it's users from data collectors and sold this information (as well as gave access) to third party advertisers  and data manipulators and this all adds to what came across people's feeds---This is where *stuff* gets sinister...

[Max2]

Think if the Klipsch site had post after post of politico garb , some from afar, but some from the friends you have here. I think some would be friends would be no more.   FB is horribly ate up with that mess.

[Zen Traveler]

1 hour ago, Max2 said:

Think if the Klipsch site had post after post of politico garb , some from afar, but some from the friends you have here. I think some would be friends would be no more.   FB is horribly ate up with that mess.

Facebook and Klipsch have two different missions.

 

When I was posting political thoughts with friends  in a private Klipsch forum everyone realized it was for debating and sharing ideas. Klipsch wasn't profiting or manipulating any of the feeds or posts that each of us were seeing--It was all voluntary. It went pretty well for about 15 years and then Klipsch went a different direction (from what I understand) because of the liability that I am asking Jeff about--Facebook isn't liable for what it's users post but they also did not take responsibility for the damage done here and in other countries. If you watch the Frontline Documentary you will see this inattentiveness influenced a lot of events here but was DEADLY in other parts of the world and is still going on.

 

That said, I wasn't a fan nor did I join Facebook thinking I would like it because you describe it in the way I'd heard it was....One of the reasons I started this thread was because it may very well have been like you described but they are trying to change the dynamic and appear to be doing so. I realize that the Klipsch Speaker Forum may not be the place to talk politics but Facebook should be the EXACT place to be able to--If not,  Trolls and Bots win over Humanity because Facebook's stated mission is a worthy one,  imo. 

[Zen Traveler]

One thing that Klipsch did take from Facebook is the LIKE button. Ironically they call it's cumulative effect your/our "Reputation." It would be interesting to see how Klipsch uses it for their research but it became a MAJOR resource for Facebook when they invented it--Watch the Documentary cuz I can't explain it as well as they do and PBS Frontline is one of the best independent fact-finders there are. Of course, most folks posting on here would rather watch football but you can watch this whenever you want! 

[Max2]

4 minutes ago, Zen Traveler said:

Facebook and Klipsch have two different missions.

 

When I was posting political thoughts with friends  in a private Klipsch forum everyone realized it was for debating and sharing ideas. Klipsch wasn't profiting or manipulating any of the feeds or posts that each of us were seeing--It was all voluntary. It went pretty well for about 15 years and then Klipsch went a different direction (from what I understand) because of the liability that I am asking Jeff about--Facebook isn't liable for what it's users post but they also did not take responsibility for the damage done here and in other countries. If you watch the Frontline Documentary you will see this inattentiveness influenced a lot of events here but was DEADLY in other parts of the world and is still going on.

 

That said, I wasn't a fan nor did I join Facebook thinking I would like it because you describe it in the way I'd heard it was....One of the reasons I started this thread was because it may very well have been like you described but they are trying to change the dynamic and appear to be doing so. I realize that the Klipsch Speaker Forum may not be the place to talk politics but Facebook should be the EXACT place to be able to--If not,  Trolls and Bots win over Humanity because Facebook's stated mission is a worthy one,  imo. 

 

 

News isn't news any more, you're reading someones opinion while their emotions and agenda are guiding them.  Everything is pure drivel on FB.  The interest and hobby groups are cool and thats where all the politicking should be placed, in a group.   They need to save the personal, political sermons and memes for the likes that love hearing their direction, because I could give two BS's no matter either side.

[Zen Traveler]

3 minutes ago, Max2 said:

News isn't news any more, you're reading someones opinion while their emotions and agenda are guiding them

This is a self-fulfilling prophecy to those that want to believe it. We have more access to News and Current events than ever before. I suggest not subscribing to any outlet but follow your favorite (or influential) politician and newsmaker and find where they make public appearance, give interviews, or follow them on social media. Fwiw, I've learned a lot by following various POTUSAs.

6 minutes ago, Max2 said:

They need to save the personal, political sermons and memes for the likes that love hearing their direction, because I could give two BS's no matter either side.

There is that, but if you let that get you down, then the malcontents win.  (Thanks for that poetic reference @thebes)

[Max2]

3 hours ago, Zen Traveler said:

This is a self-fulfilling prophecy to those that want to believe it. We have more access to News and Current events than ever before. I suggest not subscribing to any outlet but follow your favorite (or influential) politician and newsmaker and find where they make public appearance, give interviews, or follow them on social media. Fwiw, I've learned a lot by following various POTUSAs.

There is that, but if you let that get you down, then the malcontents win.  (Thanks for that poetic reference @thebes)

You're missing the point.   FB was once for friends and family to stay in touch, share pics of the kids, vacations and whatnot.  Not I get  my own personal feed on articles and BS that the National Inquirer wouldn't put in their rag.   

 

Im not down, actually quite happy, Im just tired of wading through all the ridiculous ads and posts.  I would have left FB long ago if it wasn't for my son.    

[Zen Traveler]

26 minutes ago, Max2 said:

You're missing the point.  

I apologize and am trying to understand. 

26 minutes ago, Max2 said:

FB was once for friends and family to stay in touch, share pics of the kids, vacations and whatnot.

It still is and I am enjoying watching a couple of my friends traveling right now. That said, if you watch the Documentary you will see it developed into something WAY bigger than that.

 

 

 

26 minutes ago, Max2 said:

 Not I get  my own personal feed on articles and BS that the National Inquirer wouldn't put in their rag.   

 

Im not down, actually quite happy, Im just tired of wading through all the ridiculous ads and posts.  I would have left FB long ago if it wasn't for my son.    

They have discontinued that personal Newsfeed feature because of the shenanigans that were exposed in the 2016 election....If you get a paid ad now it will have an information disclaimer you can click on to see where it came from and it's sources reputation. If you don't want to see ads from that source you can hide it. If you are still seeing what you describe above then it's one of your facebook friends who is posting it....When they first enacted the new policy, a few friends posted things that evidently were acceptable during the election (idiotic memes or manufactured compassion stories) and I had to point out to them they were part of the "Facebook problem of spreading misinformation.

 

Btw, I am not saying FB is for everyone but it is an important player in the global Communication Age we live in.

[oldtimer]

If you go on facebook, you are making the dickwad richer.  It is as simple as that.  I refuse.

[Zen Traveler]

13 hours ago, oldtimer said:

If you go on facebook, you are making the dickwad richer.  It is as simple as that.  I refuse.

If it was only that then I wouldn't care--I've probably made a lot of those rich along the way....Heck, I'm keeping up with one of my students who is in Garmisch-Partenkirchen and given she's a photographer I woke up to some stunning pictures that she had just taken. The night before she posted a couple of those "this is what I'm eating/drinking pics,"  I used to make fun of and instead felt a visceral reaction--LOL, as the kids say.  

 

That said, the underlying importance of Facebook on the culture is really starting to intrigue me and it's users are (should be) more informed today than they were a year ago. Heck, I haven't even been on a year. 

[Max2]

2 hours ago, Zen Traveler said:

If it was only that then I wouldn't care--I've probably made a lot of those rich along the way....Heck, I'm keeping up with one of my students who is in Garmisch-Partenkirchen and given she's a photographer I woke up to some stunning pictures that she had just taken. The night before she posted a couple of those "this is what I'm eating/drinking pics,"  I used to make fun of and instead felt a visceral reaction--LOL, as the kids say.  

 

That said, the underlying importance of Facebook on the culture is really starting to intrigue me and it's users are (should be) more informed today than they were a year ago. Heck, I haven't even been on a year. 

 

But do the positives outweigh the Negative ?

[Zen Traveler]

18 hours ago, Max2 said:

Not I get  my own personal feed on articles and BS that the National Inquirer wouldn't put in their rag.   

I just checked into my facebook account and I get none of what you describe above. I thought it comical that I get "Since you are such a great supporter of the President would you take a poll..." from his campaign and figured it's because I post a lot of things from FoxNews. The only thing political that came across my feed was a Ted Cruz ad--No other news sources.

19 minutes ago, Max2 said:

 

But do the positives outweigh the Negative ?

In the beginning, I thought not. Now I think as a Facebook user bringing up topics like this can educate other people on what Facebook does, did, and doesn't do...That said, I just communicated real time with my friend visiting Germany and she posted the most awesome picture she took from a 6 mile hike around the lake with the mountains in the background. I really felt connected.