joessportster Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 IME. this has been hard to accomplish, Soundstage is IME simply an issue with speaker setup I have pretty much always been able to get a soundstage to work out (Depending on speaker design, it may be 2 or 3 dimensional) There always seems to be some aspect of the music that was evident it radiates directly from the driver or horns. I had a set up years ago with a pair of monitors I did attain the speaker disappearance. As is often the case in this Hobby I moved on with other concerns being the issue, lack of bass etc...etc...etc... Lately I have been playing with Open Baffle designs, I stumbled upon what I believe to be a superb soundstage that has ample bass and now drivers totally disappear. Nothing sounds like it is coming from the speakers, there is a strong phantom center (when the music calls for such) Orchestral Pieces are all over the place with instrument separation in both width and height. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 Congratulations for sure. You have a great collection of equipment. I am in the same boat, my current set up is just awesomely transparent and dimensional... so much so I really don't want to change anything, even for Jubilees. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmlowz Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 That looks great !! A OB system is on my winter project list. rmlowz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted November 4, 2018 Author Share Posted November 4, 2018 I am still in experiment mode, once finished with that nicer cabinets are in order........................ 5 minutes ago, rmlowz said: That looks great !! A OB system is on my winter project list. rmlowz I can not recommend the H-Frame Bass Highly enough. It will floor you how good and deep the bass can get Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomy2 Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 How much is the disappearing act solely dependent on the speaker versus the room they’re in and the way the song or album was recorded? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted November 4, 2018 Author Share Posted November 4, 2018 Well the same speakers in the same room with the exact same source and now nothing seems to come from the drivers. This took place when I stopped pointing the full range (TOP) driver twords the listening position. Angling that driver up completely changed how I hear the music coming from the system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyrc Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 I find that my speakers disappear when I turn off the lights. No really! Either darkness or, at a friend's house, a fairly acoustically transparent curtain covering the end of the room does wonders for the imaging! There are usually about 7 to 9 basic positions across the front, depending on the recording. Sometimes there are a lot more, including up and down, and with a 5.0 or 5.1 recording (SACD), even more. For movies, some have great imaging, some don't. A few are outstanding: The Grey, The Impossible and, orchestrally, Wrath of the Kahn. For music, practically anything recorded by Wilkinson. Now, I cheat a bit. For two channel, I tend use PL II, and I do have a center speaker (see signature). The surrounds don't contribute much with about 1/2 of the 5.0/5.1 music disks, but when they do, the overall effect is the next best thing to sex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moosee1955 Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 Same thing happens to me on my 5th drink of Canadian whisky! Everything in my room disappears! I wake up and it's all back.Sent from my N9131 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmusic Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 18 hours ago, joessportster said: IME. this has been hard to accomplish, Soundstage is IME simply an issue with speaker setup I have pretty much always been able to get a soundstage to work out (Depending on speaker design, it may be 2 or 3 dimensional) There always seems to be some aspect of the music that was evident it radiates directly from the driver or horns. I had a set up years ago with a pair of monitors I did attain the speaker disappearance. As is often the case in this Hobby I moved on with other concerns being the issue, lack of bass etc...etc...etc... Lately I have been playing with Open Baffle designs, I stumbled upon what I believe to be a superb soundstage that has ample bass and now drivers totally disappear. Nothing sounds like it is coming from the speakers, there is a strong phantom center (when the music calls for such) Orchestral Pieces are all over the place with instrument separation in both width and height. This usually happens when you have stumbled as you said upon the correct angles for the speakers to at for the room they are in. I have it with my khorns after lots of measuring with REW, the speakers just disappear and the music is coming from the strong Phantom Center... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted November 5, 2018 Author Share Posted November 5, 2018 13 hours ago, garyrc said: "is the next best thing to sex." We are obviously doing things very different Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted November 5, 2018 Author Share Posted November 5, 2018 4 hours ago, canyonman said: This usually happens when you have stumbled as you said upon the correct angles for the speakers to at for the room they are in. I have it with my khorns after lots of measuring with REW, the speakers just disappear and the music is coming from the strong Phantom Center... When I had K-Horns the fact that they require walls to complete the horn always affected the soundstage. A strong Phantom center is possible with about any speaker it is a matter of placement / setup. While I liked the K-Horns my biggest gripe was how the walls created boundaries. For my listening pleasure I want the soundstage to be 3 dimensional wide deep and high, I found the K-Horns were plenty wide and high but the rear wall kept the illusion from going deeper than the speakers, and the side wall restricted width (which was not really an issue because the farther apart the better within reason). Horns have a presence that no other type speaker can match, it was my priority for a long time. Age and genre changes have impacted my priorities 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmusic Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 While I agree with you on most things, having my room treated and no rear wall is the exception of what you didn't have when you were using horns. Room treatment and placement and near perfect phasing has everything to do with how the sound is affected and the sound quality. I couldn't ask for anymore than I have with my current setup I will not change it for any reason anytime soon if ever... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted November 6, 2018 Author Share Posted November 6, 2018 2 hours ago, canyonman said: While I agree with you on most things, having my room treated and no rear wall is the exception of what you didn't have when you were using horns. Room treatment and placement and near perfect phasing has everything to do with how the sound is affected and the sound quality. I couldn't ask for anymore than I have with my current setup I will not change it for any reason anytime soon if ever... This is the goal we should all strive to achieve. To me the gear only matters if it takes us there (Audio, Music enjoyment appreciation) I am finding I can listen to more music genre and have more appreciation for same. stuff I used to try and listen to, & gain an appreciation for is now much more enjoyable. I find myself (for the first time) making excuses not to swap out gear..... I still have the habit of looking at the sales sites, but now its more a cursory glance than an actual search..................That feels really good 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybob Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 Think so Joe. I mean, may want to have some pass. Mean time to listen to a couple of passages as you will. I mean slow down, you got the time to last, don't you want love to last...hope you're not moving oh...too fast... I mean, you have already found... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybob Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 Sorry, not a passé thing... thanks for your ears... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parlophone1 Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 On 11/4/2018 at 11:16 PM, joessportster said: Well the same speakers in the same room with the exact same source and now nothing seems to come from the drivers. This took place when I stopped pointing the full range (TOP) driver twords the listening position. Angling that driver up completely changed how I hear the music coming from the system. The best and really true to the reality soundstage I have ever heard came from speakers that have one set of drivers pointing at the listener and the other set of drivers firing up into the ceiling. That is of course not a new concept, in my younger days I first saw it in old Castle Harlech/Howard speakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyrc Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 I have absorbers where Chris A suggested ("Corner Horn Imaging") and no furniture or equipment between the Khorns (a projection screen rolls down when necessary -- see signature), diffusion on the wall behind the listeners, a mixture of absorption/diffusion on the side walls, and I ran Audyssey. I do get depth with the Klipschorns on some recordings, and not so much on others. I also get up and down some of the time, as the Chesky test disk demonstrates and as happens in movies like The Grey. "Corner Horn Imaging ." Chris A Posted November 2, 2011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWL Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 While I agree with you on most things, having my room treated and no rear wall is the exception of what you didn't have when you were using horns. Room treatment and placement and near perfect phasing has everything to do with how the sound is affected and the sound quality. I couldn't ask for anymore than I have with my current setup I will not change it for any reason anytime soon if ever...I vaguely remember when you were dialing in your room. Did you ever end up experimenting with diffusion? A real eye/ear opener for me.Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moosee1955 Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 Reflection of most of the sound is what the Bose 901 thru 301 speakers did. With the 901, 90 percent of sound bounced off the back wall. It either sounded great or with the wrong electronics, terrible. My goal in my car stereo, was a full sound stage up front, and a very low crossover for the subwoofer in the rear. I used about 45 hz, from a high end electronic crossover. The illusion was the bass could be felt but not heard. When I had it set right, the small 5 1/4 inch door separates sounded way bigger, and their was no rear deck or door speakers to muddy up the pristine sound. I found Ads separates were some of the best back in 80's/90's.Sent from my N9131 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmusic Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 9 hours ago, SWL said: I vaguely remember when you were dialing in your room. Did you ever end up experimenting with diffusion? A real eye/ear opener for me. Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk Well no I did not, when I got to where I am now I was like it just doesn't get any better!!! The Merry go round has stopped for me!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.