New owner of vintage La Scala seeking advice

[audiojerry]

Greetings from Brookfield, Wisconsin! I am thrilled to have become the owner of a pair of vintage Klipsch La Scalla's as of this week.  I spotted them at a Flanners Home Theater in Milwaukee, where I occasionally visit to check out their trade-in room. I've gotten some great vintage gear at really great prices from them in the past when uninformed young buyers trade in there old "junk" for some "awesome" multi channel home theater receivers and such.  

I got my La Scala's for $999. I've been checking the asking prices on Ebay and $1k seemed reasonable.  I'm including photos so you can provide an opinion on whether or not I paid a decent price. Here's the info from the back of the cabinets:

Type LS-BR, Serials 18T986 and 18T987, Tweeters are K-77, Mids are WK K-55-V, crossover is Type AA.  I learned that the 'T' in the serial indicates 1979 vintage?
Do you have an acronym for La Scala? I'll call them LS for the rest of my post.

I took a chance on the LS  because I've read about their legendary past and passionate followers.  I am extremely happy with my current system which includes Harbeth SHL 5 speakers and a PrmaLuna Dialogue Premium integrated amp with Gold Lion KT88 tubes delivering about 30wpc.  The overall personality of the sound is smooth and musically engaging with plenty of deep bass for my tastes. I wasn't expecting the LS to compete musically with the $6500 Harbeths, but I thought they might be able to deliver the dynamics and punch I sometimes crave for large orchestral and symphonic works. 

When I connected the LS to my system I was extremely disappointed by what I was hearing. They were exremely squaky, bright, and hard sounding with almost no bass. I had a very hard time staying in the same room with them. I was so disappointed I was ready to give up on them right then and there, but knowing that new speakers need time to burn in and break in mechanically, I decided to give these old boxes a reasonable chance as well. 

As the hours passed I was beginning to hear significant improvements.  Now, after two days of non-stop playing, I am amazed by the sound. Dynamics seem unlimited. The squak is gone, there is great clarity and articulation, and the low-end goes down nicely.  At this point I'm having a hard time deciding between my Harbeth and the LS as being the best overall speaker. The Harbeth delivers a smoother, pleasant sound with deeper and tighter bass. Vocals, guitar, and jazz instrumentals are sweet and delicious. But the LS does things the Harbeth can't, as I previously mentioned.

 

So here is where I'm seeking some advice and opinion. If my 39 year old La Scala sounds this good now, can I do things to significantly improve the sound quality? I don't just mean change it, but improve it. Change does not always mean improvement. The cabinets really resonate -  coloring the low frequencies, so I would like to see tighter, more articulate bass. Normally, this can be done with better damping and bracing inside, but I don't know if that can be accomplished with the LS folded horn design, and might result in even greater loss of low-end extension. While the squakiness is gone, there is still some degree of a 'voice speaking with cupped hands' characteristic of horn loaded speakers. 

I'm now aware of the Crites, ALK and Volti websites for La Scala mods and upgrades, so where do you think I could realize improvement in my main two areas of concern?  Crossover upgrades, driver or horn upgrades?  I'm willing and able to make cabinet changes, but having the original La Scala cabinet plans would be helpful.

Thanks for any advice and opinions you are willing to share.

PS: For listening, I place the LS against the back wall as close as possible and spread as far apart as possible, giving me about 9' of separation and 16' to my ears.  The basement room is heavily damped with fiberglass insulation in the ceiling between the 10" joists, acoustic ceiling tiles, rough-sawn cedar on the walls with 3 1/2" of fiberglass insulation behind the walls, and heavy padding and carpeting on the floors.  It results in absorption of a lot of room reflections, but also deadens the bass and liveliness of the music.

 

Hopefully the photos will post.  After taking the photos I learned that angling the speakers to face the listening position sound better.

[codewritinfool]

6 minutes ago, audiojerry said:

So here is where I'm seeking some advice and opinion. If my 39 year old La Scala sounds this good now, can I do things to significantly improve the sound quality? I don't just mean change it, but improve it. Change does not always mean improvement. The cabinets really resonate -  coloring the low frequencies, so I would like to see tighter, more articulate bass. Normally, this can be done with better damping and bracing inside, but I don't know if that can be accomplished with the LS folded horn design, and might result in even greater loss of low-end extension. While the squakiness is gone, there is still some degree of a 'voice speaking with cupped hands' characteristic of horn loaded speakers. 

 

 

Re-cap the crossovers.  Any cabinet resonance can be tamed by installing braces, you can search around here for examples.  Do not add damping the inside of the woofer compartment. They say the squawkiness is not from the driver, it is from the horn itself.  Look in to tractrix horns.

 

Those are just my opinions, they're not worth much and others might disagree with them.  I'd collect lots of data and opinions before making any changes.  I'd also add more listening time before making changes.

 

BTW, those are beauties.

[audiojerry]

Cabinets have a few flaws. I'm thinking of making these babies my woodworking and audio mod hobby projects, provided I decide they are worthy. They sure seem to be.

   

Good advice and thanks!

[Khornukopia]

15 minutes ago, audiojerry said:

As the hours passed I was beginning to hear significant improvements.  Now, after two days of non-stop playing, I am amazed by the sound. Dynamics seem unlimited.

 

We should all exercise our speakers more often. In your case, also loosen and re-tighten the screws at your crossover wire terminals.

[twk123]

Crites sells a replacement crossover that lowers the crossover point for the mid to the tweeter, I think its called the A4500. The Lascalas mid horn has issues at higher frequencies but the K-77 is so fragile they had to keep the crossover high. If you swap the crossover to the Crites model and make sure to also get the Crites tweeters that go with it you should hear an improvement. I bought mine with this upgrade already and am happy with it. 

[Godataloss]

I heard a pair recently on a single ended triode amp and they were superb.  In fact, I bought the amp for use with my khorns, but I think it was superior on the LS.

 

[audiojerry]

I checked out both Crites and ALKENG websites. I am happy to see that both seem to be offering some very nice upgrade options for the La Scala.

Can anyone offer anything from personal experience with either? 

[Panelhead]

  Those are nice. Some ideas. Place the Harbeth in another room for now. Put the coffe table in there with them. 

  Recapping the crossovers is a start. From there you can get a lot of places. 

  I am busy, but am installing a pair of MAHL and CT-120 in my La Scala before Thanksgiving.  They sound awesome now. Hope they are over the top afterwards.

[audiojerry]

11 minutes ago, Panelhead said:

  I am busy, but am installing a pair of MAHL and CT-120 in my La Scala before Thanksgiving.  They sound awesome now. Hope they are over the top afterwards.

What is MAHL?

[JohnA]

LOL!!!  Those 1979 speakers were broken-in *years* before you got them and many on this Forum were born!  Your walls are EXTREMELY reflective.  At least turn them 45 degrees toward the center of the room and push them into the corner for the most bass output.  Consider absorptive panels for the walls at the level of the squawker near the speakers.  La Scalas have little output below 50 Hz, but are fairly flat from 60 Hz to 14k Hz.  The bass horn is just not long enough for deep bass and it's mouth is small. 

 

If the music sounds recessed and behind the speakers, the caps are in need of replacement.  It sounds like that is not the case for yours, so you can skip the cap replacement.  La Scalas sound forward, alive and big, out in the room.  Acoustic instruments will sound real, even in another room.  They will ruthlessly reproduce the bad in a bad recording.

[Budman]

congrats, gorgeous pair of LS's. just sit back and enjoy them for awhile and save up some cash for the improvements

3 things to do that will cost you about the same money that you paid for the speakers

#1 - DeanG AA crossovers

#2 - Crites 120 tweets

#3 - Crites 55 G mids

[garyrc]

4 minutes ago, JohnA said:

Consider absorptive panels for the walls at the level of the squawker near the speakers

 

I agree.

 

[jimjimbo]

13 minutes ago, Budman said:

#1 DeanG AA crossovers

#2 - Crites 120 tweets

#3 - Crites 55 G mids

Not separately, but total.  Highly recommend all three.

 

You may also want to consider replacing the woofers with Eminence Kappa 15C.  Their performance in the upper and mid bass area is stellar.

 

https://www.parts-express.com/eminence-kappa-15c-15-driver-4-ohm--290-459

 

And move the Harbeth's out of the way.

[Budman]

7 minutes ago, jimjimbo said:

Not separately, but total.  Highly recommend all three.

 

You may also want to consider replacing the woofers with Eminence Kappa 15C.  Their performance in the upper and mid bass area is stellar.

 

https://www.parts-express.com/eminence-kappa-15c-15-driver-4-ohm--290-459

 

And move the Harbeth's out of the way.

 

man i wished you wouldn't have posted this, now i'm gonna have to drive the 10 mins to parts express to get some of these woofers

[Wirrunna]

1 hour ago, audiojerry said:

What is MAHL?

MAHL = Machined Aluminum Horn Lens

check out https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/175348-horn-adaptor-for-k-77-replacement/&page=4

 

[Marvel]

Nice! Brookfield, WI... And a log home? Beautiful room... enjoy the La Scalas.

 

[jimjimbo]

2 hours ago, Budman said:

 

man i wished you wouldn't have posted this, now i'm gonna have to drive the 10 mins to parts express to get some of these woofers

You will not be disappointed.  Give them a bit to settle in.

[garyrc]

Things to try:

• Press into corners
• Toe-in so the main listener can look down the throats of the tweeters
• Put up absorption near the speakers, starting where a yardstick pressed flat against the front of the La Scala cabinet would touch the wall, then for two feet (or a little more) farther into the room.  The absorbing panel doesn't have to go down to the floor or up to the ceiling -- just centered at the height of your midrange and tweeter, extending about 2 feet above and below that midpoint. 

In your case, the absorber would be a little lower, because the La Scala midrange/treble is lower

• Put diffusion on the rear wall
• Don't have anything between the speakers, including equipment
• Add a good subwoofer, preferably a horn loaded one (DIY).  Experiment with different crossover points.  If the La Scala is O.K. to 50 Hz in your room, crossover there.
• After treating the room, try electronic room correction, such as Audyssey (nowadays only available on Marantz and Denon preamp--processors or AVRs).  This should smooth out both the response of the room and the apeakers.

I've heard La Scalas sound horrible and wonderful.  Under the best circumstances, they are very musical, detailed, and reveal what PWK called, "the inner voices of the orchestra."  Stereophile, giving the La Scala an "A" rating for speakers that don't go all the way down to the deepest bass, said, "Dynamic as all get out," and "Fun."

 

The total modulation distortion is low, about 1/3 of that of comparable direct radiators.

 

The frequency response is "flat enough" above about 300 Hz.  Paul W. Klipsch ranked smooth frequency response lower in importance than low distortion and high dynamic range.  Below is a frequency response curve PWK ran on a La Scala (solid line) and on an Altec A7 Voice of the Theater (dashed line), using the "best of 4 units" of the Altec midrange.  There is also a red line approximating the bass response of a Klipschorn (red line).  Below that are some curves Alan A. Shaw, designer/owner of Harbeth ran.  He said they were run on "different LS3/5as measured under slightly different conditions ... once again we see that the response of a real-world speaker is not flat ... the point is that in the real audio world, rather than the hardened audiophiles fantasy world, nothing is perfect and linear ... loudspeakers are far from flat; the listening room screws up the sound of the finest audio equipment ... recording microphones are far from flat and chosen for their artistic contribution not their neutrality." 

 

 

Best of Luck!

 

[audiojerry]

15 hours ago, Marvel said:

Nice! Brookfield, WI... And a log home? Beautiful room... enjoy the La Scalas.

 

Thanks for the compliment. Not a log cabin - just a basement rec room furnished to resemble a lodge. I'm happy to have been able to adopt it as my audio room now that we are empty nesters.    

 

Lots of good information and advice.  Thanks to all. I'd really enjoy a chance to listen to a system set up properly with some big Klipsch's.

 

I'm not inclined to add any absorptive treatment to the room.  It is a very dead acoustic space. No clap echo. I've visited enough live rooms and echo-ey to know the difference. The rough sawn cedar walls are absorbent with 3 1/2" of fiberglass insulation behind them. Acoustic ceiling tiles with 10" of insulation above them. Carpeted floors with heavy padding beneath.  If anything, I wish I could make the room a little more reflective.  

[Dave A]

I would re-cap those crossovers and have a listen before I dropped money on new ones.  Perhaps the best and cheapest thing you can do for those in my opinion. It would be my very first step before other things happened.