joessportster Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 I am using the denon 103 R with the Parks Puffin Phono Pre. The sound is very good but my memory says its a bit bright. I have had some very high end (ish) vinyl rigs in the past (that was years ago now) I am trying to decide if it is the source, the pre or the cart. That makes me think it is a bit bright. the rest of the setup is not the issue as it sounds great with digital. The LP are new 180 gram press. perhaps it is the mastering. How do I go about checking without spending $$$$$$$ on a new cartridge or pre.................................Anyone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cincymat Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 Have you checked the (VTA) vertical tracking angle? I’ve read that it can be to bright or bass heavy if not just right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panelhead Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 Do not know your phono stage. Do know Denmon DL-103r. Setup is critical. Like the 103r at; Loading at 100 - 200 ohms. VTF around 2.3 Gr. VTA set where cartridge has slight “tail dragger” stance. That is the rear slightly lower than the front. If still bright it points to the phono stage. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted November 8, 2018 Author Share Posted November 8, 2018 Thanks all I will check those Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rplace Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 I'd guess it's the cartridge. I've had both the standard 103 (non-R) and the 103R Denon, vanilla version as well as both R and non-R from Zu. I wanted to like/keep the R because it cost more, thus had to be "better" and because of all the hype... I figured I must be wrong. I eventually trusted my ears. To me the R is too bright/harsh. I think most of the love you read about it is from non-horn/Klipsch users. I've spent the bulk of my vinyl hours with the two Zu versions and just last year sold the R. Zero regrets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 Are you hearing bright or sibilance? It's definitely not the puffin... the parks unit is extremely adjustable including loading and dsp signal processing. Frankly the 103r was better with my rega table and rb arm, but with the eat it wasn't quite as good... but it wasn't bright. I did have to work at the set up to tame some sibilance initially, but it was definetely a set up issue. I always considered the 103r on this table as a compromise and not the ultimate pairing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshnich Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 What is the arm on your turntable? A low compliance cart like the 103r will certainly sound thin on a low mass tone arm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 I agree... I had extra max weight on It Joseph. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted November 8, 2018 Author Share Posted November 8, 2018 It is the EAT C Sharp, they dont discuss mass on the arm that I have found. I am hoping Cartridge. It is set up pretty well looks good on the protractor, and the vta is as low as it can go without the cantilever / stylus hitting the record when raised to slide it into play. No sibilance it is the overall sound..................Sounds like I will be offering up the 103R and looking elsewhere for a cart. I remember the Grado moving Iron were a great cost effective cart. Perhaps I can find 1 of those Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cincymat Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 found this online about the EAT C Sharp Speed Variance: 33 rpm: ± < 0.08%, 45 rpm: ± < 0.09% Signal to noise: S/N Ratio (mechanical noise): – 40 dB, Signal to noise (electrical noise): -70 dB Downforce range: 0 – 30 mN Supplied counterweights: without additional insert, for cartridge 5 - 9g (125g); with additional insert, for cartridge 8.5 - 13g (142g) Effective tonearm mass: 0.58 oz. (16.5 g) Effective tonearm length: 10" Overhang: 0.63" (16 mm) Power consumption: 8.5 W max / 0.5 W standby Voltage: Universal switch mode power supply 15 V DC / 1.6 A, 90-264 V AC, 47 – 63Hz Dimensions: 19.7" wide × 15.7" deep × 4.5" high without connectors, 19.7" wide × 17.12" deep × 4.5" high with connectors in the rear panel Weight: 29.7 lbs. + 1.1 lbs. separate control panel Here's a great resource to help match a tonearm with cartridge https://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge_resonance_evaluator.php HTH Cincy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted November 8, 2018 Author Share Posted November 8, 2018 Thanks for the info..................I used to use vinyl engine but totally forgot about the cartridge tonearm match resource they have Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted November 8, 2018 Author Share Posted November 8, 2018 Yea not a match made in heaven, moreover the opposite more made in Hell the 103r appears to like very high mass arm around 24 - 30 G mine being 16....................I suppose 16G tonearm mass would be considered low mass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panelhead Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 What is the mass of the arm on a SL-1200? The DL-103r matches okay and that seems to be a low mass arm. Mine has a damped armtube but that cannot add much mass. But I am using a heavy head shell too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 I'd try something along the lines of a soundsmith j. FWIW, that 103r will always be sellable. It's a good cart for the price point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cincymat Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 9 hours ago, joessportster said: Yea not a match made in heaven, moreover the opposite more made in Hell the 103r appears to like very high mass arm around 24 - 30 G mine being 16....................I suppose 16G tonearm mass would be considered low mass Hmm, how did you arrive at that mass for the arm? Not sure I've seen anything that high. cincy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panelhead Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 I had not looked at the DL-103r pricing in a few years. At 450.00 it is not the bargain it was at 229.00. But I never had issues with bright. Loading and VTA needed to be close to get full sound. The Hanna cartridges look interesting. They use Alnico magnets like the Denon DL-103 family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted November 9, 2018 Author Share Posted November 9, 2018 9 hours ago, cincymat said: Hmm, how did you arrive at that mass for the arm? Not sure I've seen anything that high. cincy Vinyl engine chart if I am reading it right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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