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babadono

how to listen?

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Most people that come to my house indulge me in a few music samples, shrug their shoulders, and sort of mentally check out. It's always a disappointment for me. I like what I have, I think it sounds good compared to the collective musical experiences in my life, and so desperately wish to share that joy.  Morgan indulges me, but she sort of has to.

 

I've gone to visit several setuls put together by forum folks and while I may have bits and pieces that don't suit my taste, overall the systems always sound good. Or maybe I'm too courteous to point stuff out because I know the personal joy that comes with showcasing one's hobby.

 

I haven't had too many audio nuts over to hear my systems over the years - I think out of a fear that they'll dash it to pieces and destroy the glass house of audio excellence that I've created, or courteously day nothing at all while they search for ways to gouge their ear drums.

 

I realize this isn't really on topic for the thread, but maybe it is.

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Most people that come to my house indulge me in a few music samples, shrug their shoulders, and sort of mentally check out. It's always a disappointment for me. I like what I have, I think it sounds good compared to the collective musical experiences in my life, and so desperately wish to share that joy.  Morgan indulges me, but she sort of has to.
 
I've gone to visit several setuls put together by forum folks and while I may have bits and pieces that don't suit my taste, overall the systems always sound good. Or maybe I'm too courteous to point stuff out because I know the personal joy that comes with showcasing one's hobby.
 
I haven't had too many audio nuts over to hear my systems over the years - I think out of a fear that they'll dash it to pieces and destroy the glass house of audio excellence that I've created, or courteously day nothing at all while they search for ways to gouge their ear drums.
 
I realize this isn't really on topic for the thread, but maybe it is.

I’ve found most that I demo for that are into the same music as me but never got into the audio world just don’t know how to critically listen.
I think most of those people in general just like a lot of bass.
The one friend I have that’s really into klipsch hasn’t really experienced anything other than KG4s and Heresy IIs(that I sold him) with cheap AVRs and he just likes to blast in large open floor plan untreated(with huge windows everywhere) living rooms to the point of distortion. It’s just super loud and I hate how everyone comments on how horrible it sounds.
Another I had over said it just sounds like regular music but louder but he liked how he felt some the sounds were coming from behind him like surround sound.
The one friend that knows a lot about music but is into headphones doesn’t know how to stay still. I tell him over and over to stay still in the sweet spot and really listen and he just wants to change songs and stand up and move around and gets into the excitement of choosing the songs he likes but doesn’t sit and actually listen. But, that’s just him. He can’t ever stay still no matter what we’re doing.
I think for me the biggest factor was getting a chance to move up in the audio world. Starting with little bookshelves to KG3.2s to KLF-10s to Heresy IIs to Forte Is to to Chorus I and Chorus IIs to La Scalas to now Klipschorns including demoing others at other people’s homes. I’ve had the experience of the differences in quality to judge and truly know the improvements and what to listen for.
When someone who doesn’t listen just goes in and gets a small demo of something they don’t know to expect or to compare with, it’s just an experience of hearing music but louder as if you’ve got a night club in your house. ThTs all they get out of it- it seems.
Most comments always seems to be “that’s bad ***” when the bass really goes low.


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Bottom line is this, I built and tweak my ghetto setup to what I like.  I guarantee that if any other decent audio system owner came over and listened to mine they'd tear it apart, as I would theirs.  I went to another forum members home and listened to his system that I can't afford and all I wanted to do was 'better' the sound, to my taste.  He turned on his 8' tall sub after demoing his Jub's, Belle center, Horn rears without it, and I thought to myself, 'WTH?'  Don't get me wrong, the stage and presence were really good, but the overall tones were not as I would have them.

 

Sorry folks, all of our ears are different.  We hear what we like.  It is terribly disappointing when you think that you've got a great sounding setup and others just shrug their shoulders.  Although, if these 'folks' are used to listening to crappy Bose or some little satellite system they've accustomed their ears to we're a bit SOL.  Again, it's all relative.  Mainly, if you like what you've got, turn it up, repeatedly and often.

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On 11/8/2018 at 5:47 PM, Don Richard said:

Many people seem to listen with their eyes instead of their ears, especially members of the audio press. Blind tests remove this bias, often embarrassing the golden ears who find that the megabuck cables they thought they were listening to and gushing over were not hooked up at all.😥

 

... And the removal of bias is, indeed, the purpose of a single or double blind test.  An individual is aware of some of that individual's biases, but keeping them from affecting judgment is difficult without blinding.  There may be other biases that the individual is not aware of.  Double blind fixes that.  There are other threats to validity, such as order effect and carry over effect. 

 

Subjective judgments can be made under scientifically controlled conditions to minimize or eliminate bias.

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11 hours ago, Opus said:

Fortunately I have yet to fall for any of the multitudes of expensive "snake oil" gadgets, gizmos, and fixes in this hobby.  In large part due to my healthy skepticism of "scientific data" put forth by those that sell that stuff.  ;)

Yup and the fancier the name the harder I look for reality behind clever marketing jargon meant all to often to sell to ego and not ears. If someone hears my system I want them to be able to walk blindfolded into my listening area and be impressed and not see a stack of marketing psyop and then be impressed because $$$$$. 

  I had an Uncle that owned a VW Beatle he called the Green Monster with a Porsche racing engine in it. So his pile-o-parts would pull up next to a $60,000 dollar (at that time and much more now) prestige vehicle and proceed to leave them in the dust. Of course he was concerned more with the reality of results rather than have something with merely decent results that cost ten times more and did not, where the rubber meets the road you might say, give the same high end real world results. The audio world is chock full of stuff like this and I want to know how it sounds and not what you needlessly spent.

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7 hours ago, Thaddeus Smith said:

Most people that come to my house indulge me in a few music samples, shrug their shoulders, and sort of mentally check out. It's always a disappointment for me. I like what I have, I think it sounds good compared to the collective musical experiences in my life, and so desperately wish to share that joy.  Morgan indulges me, but she sort of has to.

 

I've gone to visit several setuls put together by forum folks and while I may have bits and pieces that don't suit my taste, overall the systems always sound good. Or maybe I'm too courteous to point stuff out because I know the personal joy that comes with showcasing one's hobby.

 

I haven't had too many audio nuts over to hear my systems over the years - I think out of a fear that they'll dash it to pieces and destroy the glass house of audio excellence that I've created, or courteously day nothing at all while they search for ways to gouge their ear drums.

 

I realize this isn't really on topic for the thread, but maybe it is.

Great post mikey... I can count, in less than a couple handfuls, the times that I was really impressed by others set ups. Most of the time I find them flat and suffering from the typical "wall of sound" phenomenon, and this includes systems that are supposed to be much more capable than my my own. I am convinced that many owner are not capable of discrimination despite owning great gear.

 

That being said, I have heard systems that weren't mine that thoroughly blew me away.

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7 hours ago, ACV92 said:

It is terribly disappointing when you think that you've got a great sounding setup and others just shrug their shoulders.  Although, if these 'folks' are used to listening to crappy Bose or some little satellite system they've accustomed their ears to we're a bit SOL. 

While I enjoying having others audition my systems, it is not disappointing to me if they are not impressed.  The only person I want my audio systems to impress is me.  If you listen to my systems and just shrug your shoulders, or even harshly criticize it, I don't care.  Conversely, if you listen to my systems and express pure joy and amazement, it doesn't really bring me any greater satisfaction.  That doesn't mean that I don't value your thoughts and comments.  I may very well learn from your experiences, reactions and comments, but they don't change the level of enjoyment for me.  I'm not trying to sell anything.  Not the gear, not the technology, not the experience... nothing.

 

 

2 hours ago, Schu said:

I can count, in less than a couple handfuls, the times that I was really impressed by others set ups. Most of the time I find them flat and suffering from the typical "wall of sound" phenomenon, and this includes systems that are supposed to be much more capable than my my own. I am convinced that many owner are not capable of discrimination despite owning great gear.

I have had similar experiences.  However, they don't lead me to the conclusion that those people are not capable of discrimination (although that may be the case sometimes).  I just accept that what they like to hear is different than what I like to hear, or their hearing is different than mine.  I'm glad they have an audio system that they are proud of, and that brings them joy; whatever the source of that joy may be.

 

 

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Large open floor plan is really hard to get a good sound. I’ve found bringing the Chorus II out and forward really helps but still just using a mid level onkyo and don’t really like the Onkyo sound with Klipsch compared to higher end Marantz warm signature sound I’m using with the KHorns. Afraid to move the Klipschorns in this room because the left corner has a windowsill and I’d have to upgrade to a higher end receiver and not have a center to match either. The subs need upgrading as well and need to be small enough for aesthetic purposes to fit inside the entertainment center cabinet where you see the black grills behind the Chorus II. Once the Forte III is repaired- it’s going up top horizontally where the KLF-C7 is with the Chorus II. The Chorus II have all Ti diaphragms which I actually really like in this open room but need to update the crossovers still.

If the KHorns were to go in this room-can a heresy I or II do well enough as a center up top where the C7 is? I’ve read KHorns do well without much room treatment and high ceilings. I can always just strategically place pillows as I’ve done in the photo. The large vase to the left would also be a problem.

Any tips for large open floor plan living room listening? aa158c16f2e9a85d05cc01c4c57463df.jpga7157479252b3a202468ea8a2bfe2fed.jpg


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I am interested in what you do too, as I have a similar open floor plan problem too.

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I just throw stuff up on the walls and EQ the $hit out of it until it makes me smile....

.....been smiling a lot lately.



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I am interested in what you do too, as I have a similar open floor plan problem too.

Do you have room and ability to do the cardas rule when you really want to listen to music and then tuck them back toed in the corners when you’re watching tv/movies?
I didn’t do the cardas measurements-just experimented with pulling them up front and it was better than in the corners but low end wasn’t all that great


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I just throw stuff up on the walls and EQ the $hit out of it until it makes me smile....

.....been smiling a lot lately.



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That’s why I have the Klipschorns in a smaller back bedroom on the long wall - bc I can freely use all my acoustic treatment which is an eye sore and I can listen comfortably levels that I’ve found aren’t that loud outside when I walk in the backyard - compared to the louder levels I have to use in the living room- I walk outside in the driveway and front and you can hear too much. Don’t want to disturb neighbors


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Rather than attempt to invest/interest listeners in my ‘gear’ I prefer to just have guests over and say ‘nothing’ about the music. 90% of the time during their visit I get asked about the system regardless of what’s being played or how loud the volume. It just sounds good, I know and it is clearly evident. When I have directed listeners to enjoy my gear they tend to put on their ‘critical’ ears. 

 

Neighbor has a fairly costly rig featuring German Physiks omnidirectional speakers. Every time we’re there I have to ‘appreciate’ them or the world will wobble out of orbit. They are fine sounding but for what he’s got invested in stuff - they are simply unimpressive. They overwhelm the space. But I am polite. This neighbor knows what I own and I have yet to invite him for an audience. I already know his response.

 

Simply put I enjoy what I have cobbled together and use the system for the simple entertainment of guests. When I wish to ‘flex’ the gear I do so personally. I will play music selections requested by others......... and nobody is allowed to putz with any of my stuff. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Bosco-d-gama said:

Every time we’re there I have to ‘appreciate’ them or the world will wobble out of orbit. They are fine sounding but for what he’s got invested in stuff - they are simply unimpressive. They overwhelm the space. But I am polite. This neighbor knows what I own and I have yet to invite him for an audience. I already know his response.

 

Priceless!

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I am going to try a ton of Roxul panels to see if it helps, but it will be next year before I can afford to get the Roxul.

I just throw stuff up on the walls and EQ the $hit out of it until it makes me smile....

.....been smiling a lot lately.



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I am going to try a ton of Roxul panels to see if it helps, but it will be next year before I can afford to get the Roxul.


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Don't rule out any diffusion. That stuff really made me smile.

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Nope. We have a 32' curved ceiling in a room that is clay brick (floor, and walls), a stone floor, an 10' glass wall on the wall behind the speakers...gonna be a nightmare trying to tune this room.


Do you have room and ability to do the cardas rule when you really want to listen to music and then tuck them back toed in the corners when you’re watching tv/movies?
I didn’t do the cardas measurements-just experimented with pulling them up front and it was better than in the corners but low end wasn’t all that great


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Don't rule out any diffusion. That stuff really made me smile.

 

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I do not think diffusion will work in this house with all the live surfaces we already have. I did have (2)4x4 DIY RPG Diffusion panels years ago in an apartment and they worked great.

 

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I do not think diffusion will work in this house with all the live surfaces we already have

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You'll never know until you experiment. Scattering those mid frequencies combined with the right amount of absorption could do wonders.

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You'll never know until you experiment. Scattering those mid frequencies combined with the right amount of absorption could do wonders.

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Like you I sit against the wall for my KHorns and I have 2 bass traps at the reflection points and one large panel in the middle. I have 2 panels I need to hang at the front, but you got me wondering about diffusers there in your thread. They seem too expensive for me right now though


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