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RF-7 III...Trying to achieve better off-center imaging


adam2434

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2 minutes ago, adam2434 said:

 

Yep, I thought of that after I did a bunch of shoulder isometrics last Saturday.  😣 

 

Great idea!

 

I work out several times a week, but felt like I did 20 sets of shrugs after moving, adjusting, moving, adjusting them.

They are world class speakers, when you find the right spot, enjoy them.

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1 hour ago, adam2434 said:

Speakers are about 8 feet apart and distance to couch is 12 feet.

That sounds about right all in all. I would still noodle around a bit with them a few inches closer and farther apart. Sometimes a matter of inches will cause things to just click into place. Other than that I’ve got nothing.

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11 hours ago, adam2434 said:

I am a little surprised that extreme toe-in per the time-intensity trading principle is not a popular reco here.

 

Perhaps folks have tried it and it didn't work, or they didn't like it for other reasons.

 

I did the extreme toe-in with my RF-3's, it worked very well. Got a centered image on the couch (2,5 m - 8 ft wide) sitting either left, center or right.

 

Edited by JefDC
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15 hours ago, Ceptorman said:

How far are they off the wall?

 

Bottom back of the speaker cabinet is at 13.75" and 10.5" with the toe.

 

The front of the speaker is several inches forward of the TV cabinet, so should not be getting reflections from anything between the speakers.

 

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, JefDC said:

 

I did the extreme toe-in with my RF-3's, it worked very well. Got a centered image on the couch (2,5 m - 8 ft wide) sitting either left, center or right.

 

 

Interesting.

 

Notice anything strange or compromised, like with stereo separation or soundstage width?

 

 

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And I scooched over to the center couch seat last night while we watched the CMA's.  

 

Told the wife what I was doing and she said "Aww, you want to sit next to your wife." in a joking way, and grabbed my hand.  😀

 

Also asked her if she has ever noticed right speaker dominance in her seat.  Of course, she said she never noticed anything.  😀

 

Imaging is just fine in the center seat, as it has always been with every speaker set we've had in this system.

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On 11/15/2018 at 1:11 PM, adam2434 said:

And I scooched over to the center couch seat last night while we watched the CMA's.  

 

Told the wife what I was doing and she said "Aww, you want to sit next to your wife." in a joking way, and grabbed my hand.  😀

 

Also asked her if she has ever noticed right speaker dominance in her seat.  Of course, she said she never noticed anything.  😀

 

Imaging is just fine in the center seat, as it has always been with every speaker set we've had in this system.

Haha, wife's are funny sometimes when it comes to our sound systems. Sometimes we watch TV with just the TV speakers, then sometimes she'll say "turn on the pretty speakers"!

 

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53 minutes ago, Ceptorman said:

Haha, wides are funny sometimes when it comes to our sound systems. Sometimes we watch TV with just the TV speakers, then sometimes she'll say "turn on the pretty speakers"!

 

 

Funny, sounds very familiar.

 

My wife will say "You turned on the special speakers!" in a slightly sarcastic, excited voice.  I think she is making fun of me in a subtle manner.  😁

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Our RF-7 III’s are in a 2-channel system used for audio and video content (we have a separate 5.1 system in the basement).
 
Most of the time when this system is used, I am on the left side of the couch and my wife is on the right side.  If I am alone, I sit in the middle of the couch, which is one the centerline of the TV and speakers.  When I sit in the middle, the center image is fine.
 
However, when I sit on the left, there is no center image and the left speaker dominates.  This is becoming increasingly annoying, now that my brain is in-tune to it.  It’s like I’m only hearing the left friggin’ speaker.  Interestingly, if I slowly turn my head to the left, there is a point where the sound will become centered between the speakers.
 
I’m sure this does not bother my wife on the right side, as she could care less about the sound.
 
I recently increased the toe-in from converging a couple feet behind the couch to now converging slightly in front of the center listening position.  This really did not help.  And man, the RF-7 III are a pain to adjust by yourself on carpet with the spikes installed.  I basically palm the sides of them, lift, place, then repeat until I get both to the same dimensions from the back wall.
 
From what I’ve read so far, sounds like I need to try extreme toe-in, with the speakers converging several feet in front of the center listening position (not looking forward to moving the speakers again!).  This extreme toe-in will look strange in the room, but I think I need to try it. 
 
However, does this extreme toe-in narrow the soundstage, especially when seated in the center position?
 
I’m wondering if the extreme toe-in makes off-center imaging better, but shrinks the soundstage.
 
Thanks for any input.

Do what PWK said. ALL speakers sound better in the corner toed in 45 degrees. My front speakers are LaScalas. I use a combination square to insure a true 45. Everyone in the room enjoys both channels regardless where they sit. My seating position is like yours, a little to the left. The image is dead center a sounds like it’s coming from the TV. Hard left and right, left center and right center as well as center is all there in the image. Colonel Klipsch knew his stuff. Follow his teachings and you’ll be happy.


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16 hours ago, adam2434 said:

 

Interesting.

 

Notice anything strange or compromised, like with stereo separation or soundstage width?

 

 

I used that setup from 2003 till 2012 - and have to rely on 6-year-old memories.

Stereo separation or soundstage width was very good sitting left to right - I remember 'showing' this to several people that came to listen. 

I do think that the room itself and the positioning/distance of the speakers from the walls play as much a role in this effect as the directivity of the speakers.

With my present speakers and room, I cannot get the same results. 

Edited by JefDC
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19 hours ago, Ceptorman said:

Haha, wides are funny sometimes when it comes to our sound systems. Sometimes we watch TV with just the TV speakers, then sometimes she'll say "turn on the pretty speakers"!

 

 

You're one brave man if you refer to your wife as wide!! 😂

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14 hours ago, Tony Whitlow said:


Do what PWK said. ALL speakers sound better in the corner toed in 45 degrees. My front speakers are LaScalas. I use a combination square to insure a true 45. Everyone in the room enjoys both channels regardless where they sit. My seating position is like yours, a little to the left. The image is dead center a sounds like it’s coming from the TV. Hard left and right, left center and right center as well as center is all there in the image. Colonel Klipsch knew his stuff. Follow his teachings and you’ll be happy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Yep, I've read the PWK Dope from Hope on this topic.  Certainly seems like he was a proponent of extreme toe-in, where the on-axis sound intersects in front of the listening position.  However, this is in conjunction with corner placement.  I do wonder if he was a proponent of this when speakers are not in corners.

 

Unfortunately, I can't try corner placement in this room, as there is no left corner - it opens to another room.

 

 

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