Best Cornwall....?

[Don McPhee]

Before I pull the trigger on some new Cornwall 3's I thought I would chime in and see if the early Cornwalls are as good or better than the current 3's.

Plus the fact I could get some really cool looking cabs from Klipsch Restorations for less money. I understand caps should be replaced on older x/overs

and inspect driver seals but I'm just not familair enough to know what to look for and what to stay away from.

 

Cheers

Don

[MEH Synergy]

Buy a pair Cornwall IIs. Recap. Save yourself a ton of money and get great sound.  You can swap drivers and or diaphragms as well for not much coin.   

[Frzninvt]

I am partial to the old vertical versions myself but they are all good.  The 86 - 90 Cornwall II's have a crossover network that looks like it was built by playskool and the cabinet has no internal damping so they would not be my first choice although I do think the midrange and tweeter drivers are better than there predecessors.

[ricktate]

If you got room go for LaScalas......but any Cornwall is pretty good. Replacement parts from Bob Crites will fix anything you need.

 

[Schu]

CW1... imho

[Dave A]

8 hours ago, Don McPhee said:

Before I pull the trigger on some new Cornwall 3's I thought I would chime in and see if the early Cornwalls are as good or better than the current 3's.

Plus the fact I could get some really cool looking cabs from Klipsch Restorations for less money. I understand caps should be replaced on older x/overs

and inspect driver seals but I'm just not familair enough to know what to look for and what to stay away from.

 

Cheers

Don

 Why don't you find some to listen to before you drop that wad of cash? Ask for opinions and you will get a ton of them but unless you personally know the opinion givers system and what it sounds like because you have heard it how can you accurately assess the opinions according to your own preferences with no benchmark? One of the reasons I have gone through so many types of speakers is that I wanted to hear them in MY shop environment. Since I buy older stuff only I can always turn around and most of the time get all my money back and often more out of the ones I am not keeping. You decide you don't like those new Cornwalls get ready to be beaten up when you sell them.

 

  I am not a fan of Cornwalls as they all sound boxy to me and prefer the Chorus and you can find the Cornwall I, Chorus I and II for around 1G in good shape most places.

 

  It would really hurt my feelings to get new and then embark on "fixing" it like many do with immediate upgrades. Why the heck would you knowingly spend that much money on something and then fix it?  I buy Chorus speakers built with MDF because that"s just the way it is. I absolutely refuse to buy particle board anything new though as I have had to deal with to much water and dent damage on older cabinets using that junk and don't get me started on chewed out screw holes that fail because of glued sawdust.

[The Dude]

I've always been happy with stock Cornwall 1.  Haven't heard 2's or 3's yet. But have not had a major itch to replace them for something different.

[ODS123]

11 hours ago, Don McPhee said:

Before I pull the trigger on some new Cornwall 3's I thought I would chime in and see if the early Cornwalls are as good or better than the current 3's.

Plus the fact I could get some really cool looking cabs from Klipsch Restorations for less money. I understand caps should be replaced on older x/overs

and inspect driver seals but I'm just not familair enough to know what to look for and what to stay away from.

 

Cheers

Don

Find a dealer with Cornwall III's on display and listen for yourself.  

 

It's predictable, btw, that anyone who has ver 1 will say it's the best, those w/ ver 2 will say same and so on.  ..I think you just need to listen for yourself.  ..And for the love of god, don't buy new then start customizing.  ..I think it's ridiculous for people to think they can out-think all the engineers who had every tool available to them when designing a speaker and spec'ing parts. Not only do you void the warranty, you also ruin their resale should you one day have to sell them.

[MEH Synergy]

And for the love of god, don't buy new then start customizing.... 

 

What?   No TAD swap?  Blasphemous! 

[ODS123]

2 hours ago, Dave A said:

 I absolutely refuse to buy particle board anything new though as I have had to deal with to much water and dent damage on older cabinets using that junk and don't get me started on chewed out screw holes that fail because of glued sawdust.

 

Why the problem w/ MDF??  Every speaker I've ever owned - Polk Audio 5jrs, Spica TC-50's, PSB Stratus Minis, Vandersteen 3A Sigs, Paradigm S8 sig v2's, and now my Cornwall III's - have been made w/ MDF and I've never had any issues with them.  I keep them well away from water and don't mess with the screws.

[DizRotus]

On 11/16/2018 at 10:29 AM, ODS123 said:

.  ..I think it's ridiculous for people to think they can out-think all the engineers who had every tool available to them when designing a speaker and spec'ing parts.

 

I agree about “customizing” new Klipsch products.  I do not agree that changes to older Klipsch is trying to “ . . . out-think all the engineers . . .”  Good engineers make decisions that reflect production costs; DIYers are not similarly constrained.  Two such examples follow.

 

Early Klipsch heritage have the drivers and horns attached to the rear of 3/4” plywood motorboards.  The only time I met PWK I asked him why the horns were not flush mounted to the front of the motorboard— like they are now — to which he replied, “Doesn’t make a dime’s worth of difference.”  In other words, that decision was based on the higher cost of production incurred with flushing mounting.  PWK felt the cost was not justified by an improvement.

 

Another example is illustrated by Klipsch using only 4 screws to attach woofers with 8 mounting holes.  Clearly 4 does not result in better performance, but it does decrease the cost of production.  Is it wrong for Klipsch to make that analysis?  Certainly not. Is it heretical for owners to use 8 screws or flush mount?  Of course not.

 

Regarding MDF, it has its place.  In some ways it’s better than Baltic birch plywood, but in other ways it’s not.  PWK, in a Dope From Hope article criticized Speakerlab’s use of MDF, saying it can’t take a screw.  IMO, Klipsch eventually switched to MDF as a cost of production issue, not because it’s inherently better.  

 

BTW, MDF is not “particle board.”  Nonetheless, anyone who puts a screw directly into MDF deserves the poor results that follow.  Properly glued MDF joints are extremely strong.  The use of glueblocks and T-nuts enables MDF to safely accept attachments involving screws, whether wood screws or machine screws.

 

 

[MEH Synergy]

Nonetheless, anyone who puts a screw directly into MDF deserves the poor results that follow.  

 

Tell that to every car audio guy who has ever built a massively strong box with two 15" subwoofers rocking a block at a time shaking everything in sight all whilst pushing 5k watts RMS through two alternators.  

[ODS123]

22 minutes ago, DizRotus said:

Regarding MDF, it has its place.  In some ways it’s better than Baltic birch plywood, but in other ways it’s not.  PWK, in a Dope From Hope article criticized Speakerlab’s use of MDF, saying it can’t take a screw.  IMO, Klipsch eventually switched to MDF as a cost of production issue, not because it’s inherently better.  

 

BTW, MDF is not “particle board.”  Nonetheless, anyone who puts a screw directly into MDF deserves the poor results that follow.  Properly glued MDF joints are extremely strong.  The use of glueblocks and T-nuts enables MDF to safely accept attachments involving screws, whether wood screws or machine screws.

 

 

 

I know Klipsch states that the Cornwall is made w/ MDF, but looking at this picture of a Cornwall III being built, I'm not sure what it's made of.  ..I doesn't look like typical MDF.  ..And look in the background at the cabinets on the table behind her..

 

[moray james]

the MDF is veneered with wood veneer on both sides to keep it stable like any ply it must be symmetrical and ideally the veneers used should be the same wood or have similar characteristics of expansion and contraction.

[finallygotmyheresies]

I've owned CW I, II and III. In my opinion you will be happy with whichever version you buy so get the speakers that look the best to you. Personally, I get unnecessary anxiety from owning things that I am afraid to touch. Takes the fun out of owning an expensive car, fancy tube amps and fancy speakers. 

[ODS123]

37 minutes ago, moray james said:

the MDF is veneered with wood veneer on both sides to keep it stable like any ply it must be symmetrical and ideally the veneers used should be the same wood or have similar characteristics of expansion and contraction.

 

okay, so it seems you're saying the MDF used is high grade and engineered for stability and consistency.  ..A far cry from the "particle board" derision some have used to describe it.  Again, every speaker I've every owned was made from MDF and have never had a problem w/ cabinet integrity or screws staying put.  .

[jimjimbo]

1 hour ago, ODS123 said:

 

I know Klipsch states that the Cornwall is made w/ MDF, but looking at this picture of a Cornwall III being built, I'm not sure what it's made of.  ..I doesn't look like typical MDF.  ..And look in the background at the cabinets on the table behind her..

 

Those have already had veneer applied.  Look closely.

[moray james]

1 hour ago, ODS123 said:

 

okay, so it seems you're saying the MDF used is high grade and engineered for stability and consistency.  ..A far cry from the "particle board" derision some have used to describe it.  Again, every speaker I've every owned was made from MDF and have never had a problem w/ cabinet integrity or screws staying put.  .

 

2 hours ago, Westcoastdrums said:

Nonetheless, anyone who puts a screw directly into MDF deserves the poor results that follow.  

 

Tell that to every car audio guy who has ever built a massively strong box with two 15" subwoofers rocking a block at a time shaking everything in sight all whilst pushing 5k watts RMS through two alternators.  

there are ways to install screws into MDF which will be secure but generally yes I agree with you, I would rather drop a screw into Baltic Birch ply than into MDF because it is easier to have it stay put under extreme stress conditions. That said MDF can  be used and you can achieve excellent results if you build accordingly. The vast majority of loudspeakers are made with MDF. Pro cabinets are made with ply because it is much lighter and is much more resilient to impact which is very important for a mobile system.

 

   As Dave A mentioned plywood is much more resilient to moisture and pro gear can be exposed to both rain and or snow or damp storage conditions where a ply construction would be the best choice.

[Dave A]

I can buy 1" baltic birch for $49.00 per sheet + tax. When the cost of a speaker is $4,000+ and the use of inferior material saves maybe $50 per pair of Cornwalls please tell me again about engineering suitability VS parsimonious MBA CPA types who ask engineers for minimum suitable standards for production VS superior quality for production. They sell the heck out of Baltic Birch here in Music City to people who build custom cabinets and need them to be able to resist abuse and sound good. Perhaps most home environments think they will never subject their MDF stuff to abuse but I have handled way to many that have had water damage that PROVE to me the inferiority of the material.  Out of the roughly 70 to 80 pairs of Klipsch I have sold MDF is what gives me trouble and that is the voice of real world experience.

[ODS123]

39 minutes ago, Dave A said:

I can buy 1" baltic birch for $49.00 per sheet + tax. When the cost of a speaker is $4,000+ and the use of inferior material saves maybe $50 per pair of Cornwalls please tell me again about engineering suitability VS parsimonious MBA CPA types who ask engineers for minimum suitable standards for production VS superior quality for production. They sell the heck out of Baltic Birch here in Music City to people who build custom cabinets and need them to be able to resist abuse and sound good. Perhaps most home environments think they will never subject their MDF stuff to abuse but I have handled way to many that have had water damage that PROVE to me the inferiority of the material.  Out of the roughly 70 to 80 pairs of Klipsch I have sold MDF is what gives me trouble and that is the voice of real world experience.

 

And what about all the brands I have owned (and pretty much EVERY brand in existence these days) that use MDF w/out speakers falling apart or screws coming loose. ..So then,  how exactly is it inferior?

 

Interestingly, back when I owned Vandersteen 3A Sigs Richard Vandersteen promoted his use of MDF as being ideal b/c it's more consistent from sheet to sheet, fewer voids, less resonant, and easier to router.  Not saying he's right on those counts but they seem to make as much sense as your gripes to the contrary.