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Best Cornwall....?


Don McPhee

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2 hours ago, Oicu812 said:

My thought on this is:  Would you want to live in a house made of MDF instead of solid wood products?  I doubt it.  Why cheap out?  Oh yeah, the bean counters call the shots, and say that birch plywood is too expensive to use on a set of speakers that retail in the high 4 figures, and sometimes well over $10,000 a pair.

 

It's probably true that most 'normal' consumers buy their set of speakers, locate them in the listening room, and there they sit for years.  In my career, however, I've had to move well over a dozen times.  So I will be buying the Pro models from now on, or the Heritage One models, all on the used market.  They are built for life on the road.  And not made of MDF because of that fact. 

 

Which should tell you something.  Klipsch would not be able to sell much in the Professional lines if they made them with MDF.  So which is the superior construction material?  I guess it depends upon the application.

 

 

Precisely. And YES bean counters do take advantage of customers even $40,000 ones who are buying prestige and ego more than superior construction. They pinch every penny until it squeals.  One of the reasons I went purely Pro for my own use is sound quality and the other is, although pretty far down the list from sound quality, cabinet quality.

 

1 hour ago, ODS123 said:

More likely, plywood is a pain in the butt to work with (ever try routing plywood?) and each sheet is different from the next.  Even with my limited carpentry experience I have seen plywood sheets with warps, and inconsistencies in thickness and density.  ...Not a good thing if you want each product rolling off the assembly line to be the same, etc...

Hmmmmm, really? Good cabinet makers pick good material to work with and decent tools too I might add and avoid all those perils you have subjected yourself to.

 

1 hour ago, ODS123 said:

I think we're past the point of changing any minds here and are well into navel-gazing territory.  Still, I can't help but reply to the above.

 We agree on one thing namely "Still, I can't help but reply to the above"

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51 minutes ago, Dave A said:

Precisely. And YES bean counters do take advantage of customers even $40,000 ones who are buying prestige and ego more than superior construction. They pinch every penny until it squeals.  One of the reasons I went purely Pro for my own use is sound quality and the other is, although pretty far down the list from sound quality, cabinet quality.

 

So bean counters have stood in the way of every speaker sounding it's best except, not surprisingly, yours.  

 

Besides, I wouldn't be so quick to denigrate bean counters (ie., managerial accountants).  They are every bit as essential to keeping Klipsch in business as are engineers and product planners.  That is true today and was true when  your speakers were built.

 

 

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2 hours ago, ODS123 said:

 

So bean counters have stood in the way of every speaker sounding it's best except, not surprisingly, yours.  

 

Besides, I wouldn't be so quick to denigrate bean counters (ie., managerial accountants).  They are every bit as essential to keeping Klipsch in business as are engineers and product planners.  That is true today and was true when  your speakers were built.

 

 

 

Yes, I actually did read the posts prior to mine in the thread.  My main point was the very last sentence.  For my application, which usually means moving every 4 years or so, I want speakers designed to be tough when moving, on top of great sound.  Most of my moves have been done by "professionals", and there was a ton of damage done to furniture and speakers over the years, specifically either MDF or particle board items.  So those are my criteria, whereas your application might be different.

 

Which is why I said "It depends on your application" as to which material is better for you, personally.  Plus, my wife is a pianist and performer that does a lot of single day gigs.  So my pro equipment will be used quite extensively, and they will be moved around a lot.  (I am her 'roadie', after all)

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Well, I doubt there is anything easier than running MDF thru a table saw.Cuts like butta.Also reminds me of ripping 10 or 12 inch wide pine, some of that stuff would twist, bind, and come right off the saw table.I remember laughing until it hurt more than a couple times.

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15 hours ago, ODS123 said:

So bean counters have stood in the way of every speaker sounding it's best except, not surprisingly, yours.

Don't deflect. Quality of construction was my theme here + engineering to make the sound to a certain level of quality as cheaply as possible. Never said they did not sound good although all the Cornwalls I have heard sound boxy to me compared to Chorus. That is a personal opinion many do not share.

  All of my current speakers are stock Klipsch by the way and Baltic Birch so I know they can build them right when they want to.

 

15 hours ago, ODS123 said:

Besides, I wouldn't be so quick to denigrate bean counters (ie., managerial accountants).  They are every bit as essential to keeping Klipsch in business as are engineers and product planners.  That is true today and was true when  your speakers were buil

My biggest customer for many years was a restaurant chain called O'Charleys. The genius who started it was forced out by an MBA/CPA dude who became the new CEO and saw nothing but cost containment. So he started hacking and whacking and when they finally got around to removing the quality ingredients from their commissaries products the end result was almost bankruptcy and they went from 600+ stores down to somewhat over 200. So yes unless there is someone who remembers what made the product great to keep a tight rein on the guy who only can see dollars sans sense they are bad news. CPAs as leaders and primary decision makers are bad news equaled only by MBA's which seem to make money by exporting jobs to other countries away from their "expensive" domestic work force which is then still somehow expected to continue purchasing from the hollowed out MBA dudes outfit.

 

  So yes as hired help they are needed but as leaders and or primary decision makers they are constant peril to all involved except themselves.

 

  Sorry for the thread morph OP but it happens. In spite of my derogatory sawdust comments those Cornwalls will sound better than anything else at that price point from other companies but there is more than one way there.

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5 hours ago, Dave A said:

CPAs as leaders and primary decision makers are bad news equaled only by MBA's which seem to make money by exporting jobs to other countries away from their "expensive" domestic work force which is then still somehow expected to continue purchasing from the hollowed out MBA dudes outfit.

 

This is such a gross generalization I don't know where to begin.  You seem to have an ax to grind for successful companies.  So you provide on example of a poorly run company and extrapolate from it that all companies run by CPA or MBA's are somehow out of touch with their customers and discount the importance of a quality product. ..I know several CPA's and MBA's and they are every bit as conscientious about these things as, say, an engineer or market analyst.

 

If a Board of Directors approves a CPA or MBA as COO of a company and he or she does a terrible job then the Board chose the wrong person, that's all.   Good lord, I would think the shareholders of MOST companies would want/ expect that a chief operation officer has an MBA.  ..Probably half or more of successful large companies are run by someone with at least an MBA

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2 hours ago, ODS123 said:

 

This is such a gross generalization I don't know where to begin.  You seem to have an ax to grind for successful companies.  So you provide on example of a poorly run company and extrapolate from it that all companies run by CPA or MBA's are somehow out of touch with their customers and discount the importance of a quality product. ..I know several CPA's and MBA's and they are every bit as conscientious about these things as, say, an engineer or market analyst.

 

If a Board of Directors approves a CPA or MBA as COO of a company and he or she does a terrible job then the Board chose the wrong person, that's all.   Good lord, I would think the shareholders of MOST companies would want/ expect that a chief operation officer has an MBA.  ..Probably half or more of successful large companies are run by someone with at least an MBA

😴

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10 hours ago, ODS123 said:

 

This is such a gross generalization I don't know where to begin.  You seem to have an ax to grind for successful companies.  So you provide on example of a poorly run company and extrapolate from it that all companies run by CPA or MBA's are somehow out of touch with their customers and discount the importance of a quality product. ..I know several CPA's and MBA's and they are every bit as conscientious about these things as, say, an engineer or market analyst.

 

If a Board of Directors approves a CPA or MBA as COO of a company and he or she does a terrible job then the Board chose the wrong person, that's all.   Good lord, I would think the shareholders of MOST companies would want/ expect that a chief operation officer has an MBA.  ..Probably half or more of successful large companies are run by someone with at least an MBA

So what model or components of Cornwall 1,2 or 3 do you like.....😉

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I will second that statement. Didn't want to spend the coin on LA scala IIs.  When I had the Cornwall IIIs, I loved them, especially for what I paid.   If I was to stay with a heritage model, these would be the ones I would stay with.   I also didn't feel the need to tinker with them whatsoever.  

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11 hours ago, Westcoastdrums said:

I will second that statement. Didn't want to spend the coin on LA scala IIs.  When I had the Cornwall IIIs, I loved them, especially for what I paid.   If I was to stay with a heritage model, these would be the ones I would stay with.   I also didn't feel the need to tinker with them whatsoever.  

What did you pay?...AND why did you get rid of them?

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59 minutes ago, Westcoastdrums said:

$2500.  Sold em to get KI 396 IIs.   MAJOR upgrade. 

Are the 396's detailed enough? Seems as they are a permanent front of house speaker. Generally

this type of speaker would not be considered audiophile...... I'm not familair with them at all though......

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5 minutes ago, Don McPhee said:

Are the 396's detailed enough? Seems as they are a permanent front of house speaker. Generally

this type of speaker would not be considered audiophile...... I'm not familair with them at all though.

The very best Klipsch for detailed audiophile experience is the better Pro stuff. What Westcoastdrums said is right. Cornwalls, La Scalas and KHorns are great but the better Pro is superior. Don't take my word for it either you deserve to go and find out in person but don't say you weren't warned.

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To answer your question, yes they are much more detailed than the heresy 3 I owned and also the Cornwall 3 I owned as well as many other pair of Klipsch vintage speakers that I had. I will say that they may not be the best very low volume speaker. The treble is a little bit too soft at low volumes. It seems like around 80 DB or so the balance comes into play correctly and they sound better the louder they get turned up from there.

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6 hours ago, Westcoastdrums said:

I'm also digging my Klipsch Pro Kp-3002 speakers outside.   I'm hooked on the pro gear as of now. 

 

So am I, but my pair of 3002’s are my desktop / computer speakers.  Just fabulous.

 

We need to stop bragging them up, gentlemen.  Otherwise, their prices on the used market will start going the same way that the veneered have recently.

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10 hours ago, Don McPhee said:

Are the 396's detailed enough? Seems as they are a permanent front of house speaker. Generally

this type of speaker would not be considered audiophile...... I'm not familair with them at all though......

 

Though it would be hard to find KI-396's to audition,  I would strongly urge you to do so before choosing them over the Cornwalls.  Though the CW III's aren't exactly full-range speakers, the KI-396's don't even come close.  They are reasonably linear (+/- 3db)  only to like 60 hz.  They extend deeper than this but aren't very linear (to 35hz but +/- 10db).  This is pretty good for a 2-way design.  But for use with rock or jazz I would think they'd require a subwoofer.  

 

These speakers strike me as being intended more for PA and small theater applications than they are for audiophiles.  The engineering priority was more about brute power and durability than refinement.  So make sure this is your priority too.  Keep in mind that unless your listening room is the size of a banquet hall and you plan on sitting 40 feet from your speakers, the CW's can also play loud enough, without distorting, to destroy your hearing w/ less than 10 watts. 

 

Also, note that the 396's have an MDF front baffle (motorboard).  This wouldn't bother me at all but there are some here who think MDF is incompatible w/ quality speakers. :)

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On 11/17/2018 at 8:16 PM, Oicu812 said:

 

Yes, I actually did read the posts prior to mine in the thread.  My main point was the very last sentence.  For my application, which usually means moving every 4 years or so, I want speakers designed to be tough when moving, on top of great sound.  Most of my moves have been done by "professionals", and there was a ton of damage done to furniture and speakers over the years, specifically either MDF or particle board items.  So those are my criteria, whereas your application might be different.

 

Which is why I said "It depends on your application" as to which material is better for you, personally.  Plus, my wife is a pianist and performer that does a lot of single day gigs.  So my pro equipment will be used quite extensively, and they will be moved around a lot.  (I am her 'roadie', after all)

A note to those moving speakers and furniture: if you don't know about Gaffer's Tape, look into it! Apply it to edges, corners, and other susceptible areas prone to damage while moving.

Screen Shot 2018-11-20 at 6.44.34 AM.png

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